I'd quite like the shotguns to have a click for reload function, as in you fire a shot, then the next click pumps the gun, then the next one fires the shot. I've played a couple of games with it in and it has a very nice feel to it, makes the gun feel more beefy and also alleviates the feeling of waiting for the next shot before you click again, which breaks flow a bit if the time between shots is longer than about half a second. Having two clicks per shot lets you space the shots out without breaking the click flow. I don't like the idea of double barrel shots, it just makes the gun too powerful or too weak in single shot mode, it's not as if ammo is at a premium in empires and it shouldn't become so for the main weapons, grenades could use a cutback but primary weapons should have plenty of ammo capacity. Mouse2 would be well served as an ironsight, except unlike other weapons you can move just slightly slower than normal speed in IS, rather than the substantial reduction other guns suffer, and there is also less sway. The reason for that is I think running should increase the spread a bit, I know it's not realistic but I don't like the idea of people sprinting past firing a fully accurate shotgun at me, it'd make it into too much of a 'run into combat and bunnyhop/dodge around while clicking madly' weapon. So, using ironsights and crouching boosts the accuracy enough to make it do maybe 1/3 of a health bar damage at about 2 rax lengths, and a full killing shot at 2/3rds of a rax length. Firing while running would cut those distances in half, and sprinting would cut them to a third. Combined with the slower rate of fire it'd be useful in a similar way to the AR, except completely ineffective at long range whereas the AR can do damage at any distance.
Here's why the revolver shotgun as displayed is impractical at best, and won't work at worst. The function of the rim on firearms cartridges is to act as a means of loading them into or extracting them from the chamber. Even so-called "rimless designs" simply have it so that the rim does not interfere with loading. On a revolver or a shotgun shell, the rim serves the purpose of acting as keeping the cartridge secure in the chamber. If revolver ammunition were rimless, then they would be loose in the chamber, and may misfire when struck. The only exception is that you load them with a full or half moon clip into the cylinder. On the other hand, shotgun ammunition is rimmed mainly for the convenience of break-open action shotguns. What happens in your weapon is that the shotgun shells won't fit snugly in the chamber. When fired, chances are that it will misfire because the pin or striker won't hit the cap in the base square on or with full force. Plus there's the question of how you get rimmed ammunition to go into the revolver cylinder front first. If you make the chamber large enough to accommodate the rim, then now your ammunition will fit REALLY loosely in the gun. Forget the misfires. The shells are going to fall out of the gun if you tilt it downwards. If you try to solve the problem by making the ammunition rimless, then your extractor design won't work very well, and your cartridges will still be lose. Also, the combination tubular magazine/revolver mechanism is redundant and overly complicates the weapon. What you've basically done here is add probably over 50% more moving parts to the firearm with no seeming advantages at all over the pump-action weapon. The double-action mechanism would still be slower than the pump-action. Now if it were a much smaller weapon that could be held in one hand, maybe it'd be a lot better, but as it stands it isn't. So no. Not logical at all. You've simply bastardized and over-complicated the weapon in favour of "coolness". If I had more time, I'd go into even greater detail about why this won't work. If you're going to design believable fictional weapons without bothering to study the real subject first, base your designs off of proven weapons. Otherwise, you might as well draw a Gundam.
As somebody who doesn't particularly know or care about guns, I vote for 'fuck realism'. It's a gun, it shoots things out of it and they kill people, how it works is pretty irrelevant except for when it generates interesting designs, if those designs aren't strictly logical, so what?
i am proud to say i noticed most of these points, and posted about them, but to be honest if it delivers a cool gun for the game i don't care if it doesn't make sense in rl
Yeah. I have to say I'm with Chris with this one. It's a gun, it shoots, it kills, in theory it works flawlessly and that's enough because it's nice and unique design. And also haven't you heard of "special ammunation?" What if those shotgun shells are rimless and they have thicker plastic cover around the debris which is shot out so they fit just and just in the cartridge and when they are rotated behind the firing barrel the plastic cover will give the ammo stiff support and the ammo doesn't have no way to move so it will fire 100% every time. Plus howcome the extraction mechanism won't work? The cartridge rotates the ammo totally outside of the gun so if the other end wasn't covered with metal plate and hammer you could just poke the empty buck out by your finger. Last time I checked metal on metal with some plastic slides very well and easily. And finally... This is just a design for a game. It doens't have to be 100% logical and be as simple as possible and work as well as possible. Those things don't matter in any game because anything can be made to work in a game. The thing what really matters is once again how cool the weapon looks, how unique the design is and how enjoyable it is to use. At least I would love to use this weapon just because of its design. I have NEVER EVER during my 20 years come across a weapon which would be even distantly close to this weapon design. Fuck the every day designs and the designs of the masses. I do unique new designs and I like doing them exactly because they are unique and no one else hasn't even thought of them. I even try to question all common designs of every day life and ask at myself why those couldn't be done differently? Why they couldn't be made to look more interesting?
To add to what Weedy said, the only reason guns are so boring IRL is manufacturing. They don't care how they look. It's how they function. Because its money.
The design. A few individuals might buy your gun for the looks, but you won't get a nice big contract or large purchase if it isnt a well built and functioning gun. Thats the main reason IRL guns are to plain visually. A design like this would hardly sell even if it was mechanically sound, because, you could probably get a gun that operated the same from another company for less that works better. Looks != good weapon IRL.
NEEEEEWWSS TIME CHILDREN! Lincoln Revolver Shotty Repeater This is kind of transition link. I was like: "Meh. I'll come up with a design where bucks can have rims so those OMG THIS DOESN'T WORK IN REAL LIFE can shut up." So I thought I'll make a shotgun which uses the revolver mechanism and add in the winchester's handle and this is what I first made. I thought it was okay but then I realized that the barrel looks way too short and the whole gun looks just way too small. Anyway. This would be reloaded the old skool way. Cartridge pops to the side as in normal revolvers, you push the axle to get old bucks out and use speedloader to get new bucks in and just click'n'roll. The Winchester's handle is there to manually rotate the cylinder instead of it rotating automatically. I thought this would look cool and would be also faster than revolver's own rotation mechanism which I have heard is prone to break easily when you fan your revolver. This type wouldn't have that problem because the handle takes care of the rotating and the cylinder rotates as fast as you can wank that handle. Anyway, this isn't my final idea for a "realistic" buck loading shotty revolver. Edit: Oh yeah, and this could be easily edited to double barrel version too which wouldn't require anything else than just aligning those two barrels correctly because when you push and pull the handle it rotates the cartridge forwards one hole. If you pull it second time you get two barrels loaded and you can fire double shot. Also there wouldn't be any problems with ammo disposal because you just pop the cartridge to side when all your bucks are used up. Mini Shotty Revolver So I thought the revolver should be shorter to make it look more like a pistol and which could be used by one hand (so you could dual-wield ) to fit the size of the revolver better. This is basically enhanced NF shotty pistol because now this can hold more ammo than the shotty pistol and can be also used with two hands to increase accuracy and used in ironsight. (Hence I left the support.) This is also loaded normally by popping the cartridge to the side and throwing old bucks out and speed loading new ones in and clickin'n'rolling. Repeater Shotty Now this is what I wanted to make when I wanted to make a shotgun which is loaded from the back so bucks will slide in and out "realistically" and it doesn't have to use any special ammo in order to make it work. Clip inside the gun is spiral drum clip so you can fit as much ammo there as needed and the winchester handle takes care of loading, unloading and rotating the cartridge cylinder. See more info under the tech pic. So, as you can see the handle pushes the new buck in one of the four holes in the cartridge and at the same time when you are pushing the handle forward another lever will grab the rim of 3rd buck and pull it out. When you pull the handle back to its normal position the cylinder rotates and you can fire the loaded buck. Sure it may require some extra levers in order to make the unloading lever work but in my opinion this is very simple design before you add in the revolver mechanism. But I think this is still more simpler than normal pump-action shotgun is. Also, the gun gets loaded when you push the handle forward but I felt like leaving the hammer outside so you can load it manually if the buck does detonate on the first try and that way you don't have to waste one ammo. This design also has one smaller flaw but that's pretty trivial. When the clip goes empty. You load the last buck in, shoot it and if you don't reload the gun one more time it is left there behind the gun barrel so basically if you don't fire the loaded buck you may leave the gun loaded even you would think it is empty. Anyway. Thanks for everyone giving more nice ideas and thanks once again to Vess for posting his shotty revolver. Discuss.
Some one close this thread please. Nerds who cant stand reality are trying to make guns. Restrictions force creativity and you guys are removing all restrictions. The must look cool restriction is a sham, none of those wepons look cool. Thier ugly blunderbus's. The shell's do more trick manuvers then a circus preformer. Start limiting your selves and it will come out better. My limits were: -Easy to manufacture -NF style -Functional -8 rounds -Clip like reload -wood stock -Cool If you guy's stick to those rules We'll get some weapons that might work.
I think I usually use these rules: Edit:-It has to involve the revolver mechanism -What comes to your mind -Does it work in theory? --If yes, go for it. --If not, roll it around until it starts to work. It's true restrictions improve creativity but meh... I came up with those ideas even without trying to put in restrictions. Those ideas are flexible. Like the repeater shotty, you can adjust the ammo amount in the scripts to fit the needs of the game and that change doesn't require new model such as downgrading from 8 shooter to 6 shooter requires. We can just say: Yeah, they smallened the spiral drum. If I wanted to make different shotty from yours I'd use my old idea for it. Take NFHR, imaginate that the clip has shotgun bucks in it instead of bullets, done. And I even made that in my Au mod. It only would have require tiny adjust to the model: bigger barrel. And yes, it really shot shotgun bucks out of it. It would have met all of those criterions but it was already used idea and I wanted to come up with new ones.
The machine pistol was just an expedient to allow BE to have a relatively unique second backup weapon because the older one effectively did everything the other one could do while the buckshot pistol is just plain ugly.
Were not talking about how they look, Vess is bitching about how weedy's designs are mechanically impossible and we should be uncreative and stick to reality. And to be honest Vess, your concept doesn't look much better. Concepts are supposed to be rough and unpolished, thats why its called a concept and not a WIP.
Who are you trying to defend? Cause your just making a fool of yourself. If you want imaginative but impractical weapons go play Zeno clash. This is empires here designs respond to realism, bullets and physics push don't. TF2 weapons make sence while being imposible, but there are no valve artists here. I try and give advice and I'm attacked "Noes U censors da art, U NAZI!" You want to express your self try suicide. Make a real statement. We need more people like you to be martyrs
No, we should be creative, but work within the realms of creativity. That's why "deus ex machina" is a literary plot device that few use anymore. It can conclude a story but it does not resolve conflict. You can be creative, but you have to have your reasons. Making it look "cool" is insufficient by itself. Designs have to, first and foremost, be believable. They don't have to stick to existing weapons too much, but they have to be believable. The more effort and detail you put into a design, the more of an impression it will make on you, and there's a reason why people love the SPARTAN armour in all of its intricacies and how they contribute to its overall appearance. But I deviate from topic. If you're going to come up with how the firearm works, you'd better come up with a clear cut and logical way how it works. And to those people who mutilated the original design, how about this. You come up with your own designs, and post them up on the internet, and we will comment on them okay? If you can't draw for shit, too bad.
Great piece of weaponary there, one thing tough that works against it, its a too good designed weapon, it lacks that cobbled togheter design that id associate with NF smallarms...
I can't draw for shit so I used Vess' pic which I could copy paste and smudge and do some minor add ons. And look how many ideas I came up with from that gun only. =) Now's everyone elses turn.
If you can only be a bitch, gtfo, too bad... First thing that you learn if you work/learn anything design related is that it doesnt matter who had the idea and that the process of getting good ideas is the result of people working together not of one egoist that wants all the fame. Weedy did in that thread more for empires than the most of you did in their whole life.
But there is however, such thing as a "stupid idea", or bad and unwelcome contributions. Weedy simply bastardized Vess' original design. When you take someone's original drawing and screw it up like that, they're going to be pissed. Anyways, there's the suggestions forum where people work together in an attempt to make the game better but that doesn't mean they come up with good ideas.
