Without any clarification Im going to assume you mean: 4. Discussion of the server rules or any action taken by an admin is not permitted in the server. Please take your comments to the forums. I know this will not sounds as I intend it to, but the way it is worded, It reeks of censorship. I'd use complains rather than discussion.
I've often thought that ********* was ******* but never really considered it until ******** said ********. Furthermore ********* is not as ******* as ******* might expect. But all the same I'm glad I live in ***** where I have complete and unfettered freedom of speach.
I wrote that rule, and it is censorship. People talking about the rules or what an admin just did is generally not constructive, because it's usually people complaining about it, and if it isn't, the discussions go on for so long that it interferes with game play. Like all rules, it's at the admin's discretion, and that one was written primarily for incidents where I had just banned some experienced player for stacking or exploiting and was not going to have a long winded discussion about it, or listen to people demanding that the player be unbanned. Why am I even posting...? It's not like I even play anymore...
Yeah, the new rule about developer bashing could do with re-wording, even if I get the reason behind it. In case people don't understand, it's not about flaming developers specifically, it's trying to stem this non-stop abuse, and above all, lies, that come from some of the spectators, which makes it really difficult to get testers or test the new scripts ingame. I'm not sure how it could be reworded though, but that's what it means regardless. Whilst I had nothing to do with the rule change, I appreciate the lengths Vicki is going to in an attempt to help us actually develop the mod.
How about: Discussion of the development and development team for Empires is permitted as long as players are not speaking in a negative or nonconstructive manner and are not openly insulting(attacking?) the development team(on a personal level?). idk it's hard to think of a good way to make it so people can talk about development and be able to voice their opinions on what they think is bad with the releases, without being overly negative about it.
How about: Discussions pertaining to development are acceptable. But *Bashing/flaming the dev team, scripts or in any way impeding development will result in a gag/mute/silence. Constructive criticism is welcome and should be posted here: Empires Forums
Discussions pertaining to Empires development are acceptable, but outright bashing/flaming is not acceptable, and will result in a gag/mute/silence. Constructive criticism is welcome and can be posted on the Empires forums (hyperlink that). Information and an area to post feedback specifically related to the new development scripts can be found here: (I will make a thread for this later). It's a bit wordy but I'm sure someone can improve it.
isnt abusive behavior against the rules anyway? so it already contains development. i also think out of game talk should be reduced to an absolute minimum. also spectating should be limited to 2-3minutes (except for admins for apparent reasons) - long enough to pick a team, short enough to make it uncomely to have extensive arguments about features of the game. theres plenty of tools - just to name one, steamchat - to have discussions that do not disrupt the players experience. and since its not public space you have all rights to censor. i think thats what a lot of people forget about. if you come to my flat and abuse me, my friends or whatever idea i find right, ill kick you out the door.
Sure flashe, but that is not the point. Point of the game is having fun, and the way it is worded sounds like you'd kick someone's ass out of your flat for just disagreeing on favouite color. It basically boils down to the old as coal "Enforce the rules, but do not go Gestapo on people". Problem is just worse with small communities as ours.
oh i see where my misunderstanding lies - i thought youd mean what i wrote instead of how the new rule is worded ... honestly i see no reason why you simply forbid abusive (and disruptive) behavior and arguments about admin decision on the server. this basically fits all cases. but in the end its private space, if the owners or their representitives do not want you on the server its their good right to take measures that you dont. they dont owe you anything, they are not obligated to reason their decision. you have no right to object either, thats pure goodwill. they dont even need to put up rules.
Thats the problem with empires, we only have 2 servers, one pretty much all american, the other all european. There are no viable other servers. In TF2 one can just say" well f you too" and go find another server. With only one not-lagging server as an option, being highly restrictive with usual liberties will basically drive people away. I think you can see why this can hurt empires, which is in dire need of players, and is a mod that takes a long time to learn as well. Its all about making a compromise between " I want my rules" and " I want to actually play with someone". Thats how I see it anyway. I think you are beeing somewhat narrow in your thoughs, flashe. Too much theory, not much praticality.
i see how the acceptance of abusive and disruptive behavior did hurt the mod more then a handfull of players being permabanned. edit: but i agree to some extend, since the sane people already ran away you have to cope with the tards that are left ...