[Need Feedback]Turret Rotation

i think there is too much of a fixation on tank vs tank combat in this turret speed discussion - turret turn speed would also change infantry vs tank combat and imo that its where it could shine the most. especially if what is said about prediction is true. once vehicle mgs actually start to hit infantry reliably, you have two options, either sit in a tank (which isnt possible for everyone), or join spec.

but i know, unpopular, personal, opinion.

 

really? i have the impression rpg upgrade is highly controversial because it allows grens to be an actual threat to your precious tanks.

 

Advanced rpgs make me sad because it doesn't affect the mortar which is a better tank killer.

So anyways, I never presumed it would bring lights equal to heavies, that's dumb. The point is because a heavy tank can move their turret so fast a light's mobility, or even an apc for that matter, are pretty much meaningless against heavies. I'm just not a fan that once heavies are researched lights are completely useless just like how turrets are once nukes get researched. I can stop building turrets but I can't stop people from buying lights.

Also feel like 2 lights should be able to take down a heavy if they are cooperating, team work makes the dream work and all that. It really doesn't feel like that at the moment though unless heavy is scrub or the light drivers are some of the best tank drivers.

Last thought is I disagree with lights being unable to close games, but only because it's really infantry closing games with the tanks supporting them against other infantry/light tanks. Heavies aren't exactly the reason games end, they're the reason a team bankrupts so the game can end.

 

like i already said in my first replay, i dont think different turret turn speeds will ever work out without a total rebalance of empires. ofc this includes prices, theyre not set in stone.

i would wish for it being tried out, with everyone giving it a fair chance (yeah i know naive in terms of empires), but i also know this will be a shitload of work - and then it still holds the possibility of a total failure.

 

Your prices are wrong a bit, minimum for lights is 300 with average being 400ish, heavy minimum is 1200 with average being 1400ish.

I should have added on that this would be open areas where the light tanks can make use of their mobility, which isn't that many maps, not to mention this takes 2 players doing something instead of just one guy in a heavy. Players are a resource and there's not much to go around.

That said I would never design heavies to work the way they do, I don't like them as a 3rd tier type of upgrade. It works in rts type games and people like direct upgrades in fps games, but we could have much more diversity and interesting strategies without such direct upgrades.

 

Deadly shots aren't fun for infantry, even if turret speed was slowed down. I mean that's a problem that everyone seems to forget, it's a tank you don't have to be right next to someone to hit them, so it's not like people on foot are really going to be able to dodge a shot any better then now.

 

How does slow rotation let infantry counter it? You'll need to properly explain that because if people can't just swing their turret willy nilly they aren't going to be right next to the fight anymore.

Empires isn't a place for sensibility, it never was. If it was you'd have to gut out the empires out of empires.

 

Changed the thread title a bit because I thought I already did and spent a few minutes looking for it when it was already there. At least we know from the title what the thread is about.

So I got a chance to play with this during the bug test for a while, both with high speed and low speed. High speed I don't think will really change empires at all, and I can see why people say it feels like lag but to me it felt like weapon weight swinging around like you see in newer games. I'm whatever about it personally, however I will say I never had a problem with how it looks now to be honest, though the effect is kinda neat.

Slow speed is different though. It was set up so that lights could do 360 degree rotation in 1 sec, meds were 240 degrees in 1 second I think and heavies were 120 in 1 second. My 2 thoughts are I don't think this would be very helpful in a lighter vs heavier tank engagement at all and I don't feel like it changes heavy tank combat too much, with one condition(more on that in a tic). The problem I had with lights is that I moved so fast that even if the delay is small to get the turret pointing in the right direction it was enough that I kept missing a lot of shots because it wasn't instant anymore. I never realized how fast combat could be in a light til I played with the turret delay. That said it wouldn't be hard to just kinda delay my shot a split second so I wasn't hitting nothing, but I'm not sure I like the idea of that hesitation in empires combat. The patience game doesn't feel rewarding, just kinda aggravating.

These problems were less pronounced the slower the tanks got though, in a heavy tank I really didn't feel like I was all that handicapped. The one condition to that was the be heavy spinning out on me, I ended up with my turret pointing in the wrong direction every time I spun out with it desperately trying to catch back up to the crosshair. That said towards the end of it I was getting used to it, I just didn't look at the enemy so the turret and tank would spin out so I was on target or swing my cursor in the other direction to meet halfway, and even better is I don't think it's actually hard to fix the problem of the be heavy spinning out so this might be less of an issue then it might seem.

Now I brought up the light vs heavy thing because it's certainly what I would have wanted from such a system, but it didn't seem like it helped. I don't know how hard they were trying but I was facing off against 2 nf lights in a heavy with just 2 3slot ranged cannon. I destroyed both like 2-3 times before they got me. I did have vehicle speed from scout, but I don't that really gave the advantage, not with it making me spin out all the time.

All that said of course the numbers could change, things can be rehauled, but the question ends up being isn't this just going to slow down combat? Won't this slow down empires? Is that really what we want? That's the only way I can see such systems actually having an effect, we have to slow down tanks or cycle times of weapons or both for this to really work, maybe even slower turret speeds, but it's all slowing things down and I don't think it's going to make empires more enjoyable. Sure it could be an enjoyable game, but it wouldn't really be the type of empires I really grew to love.