This will be my second time typing this cause it logged me out. If I am brief in this run, that's why. I assure you the last one was much more comprehensive. The Idea: More powerful vehicles having more people required to operate optimally. People like to talk about things being unbalanced, despite it being an unavoidable evil. Of these things, people cringe when they see a Brenodi Heavy with dual rails rolling at them. I do not support nerfing dual rails in the least bit. However, I would like to see tanks utilizing heavier weapons, requiring a second person to operate them. This means, railguns, bio-warheads, nukes, possibly he, and guided missiles require a person in the 2nd seat to fire them. Smaller weapons, such as missiles, light cannons, and machine guns, could still be operated by the driver. Ideally you can suppose that a tank with dual railguns, high explosive, the weight-expensive nukes, and bio-warheads, are not neccesarily accompanied by the lighter weapons. In the off chance it does happen, the gunner could also operate these smaller weapons, just as they are done already. The only change is in how many people are required to optimally utilize them. To prevent the need for new models, make the top seat (the current #2) third. The achieved effect is: Drivers may more precisely handle their vehicles during combat Can be implemented to further balance tank fights. Does not demand new models or art for functionality. I must admit I had more support for it the first time around, so don't beat me for being short. Light Weapons Machine Guns Standard Cannon Missiles (including guided) Grenades Plasma Cannon High Explosive Cannon(*) Heavy Weapons Rail Guns Nukes Biological Warheads Missile Salvos Homing Missile High Explosive Cannon(*) (*)Position is debateable. Guided is on light weapons, simply because it would be difficult for someone who isn't driving to guide a missile. Anything I left out will come in a later post +Intended to carry over into aircraft
This is an interesting idea. It will not only incourage team work but almost essentially require that you communicate with your driver like in real life. In RL you cannot drive a tank and fire a weapon without talking to each other. You need the driver to get into position for certain shots, or inform the driver your out of ammo. This however can cause alot more traffic on the Mics which may lead to the inability to understand anyone.
/Enter separate chat channels And here enters the idea of having separate chat channels. See this thread (also found in my sig) for my proposed idea of a separate chat channel that would help clean up the constant mic. chatter that isn't relevant to all players on your team. :-D Moose I think it's a decent idea, I agree probably not too hard to implement seeing as there's no new models required, and only some code modification, but the extra communications it would require to effectively operate a tank may be too much. Furthermore, anyone without a mic couldn't quickly communicate with their tank [driver / gunner]. The idea does a good job of making the game, and in particular tank operation, much more realistic, but in reality operating a tank with just two people is fairly complicated and requires a good amount of training to do correctly. Where as tanks in Empires are (correct me if I'm wrong) meant to be relatively easy and intuitive to use. I like the idea of having more realism, but maybe this isn't the best area of Empires to make more realistic..?
If this would be accepted, we would have more germans (no offense really) talking on their mics, think of it. You're a team of 20 people, all of you have to talk to your driver . At the same time. I like it as it is , after all, Empires aint about realism. But what I want is that the 2nd slot in tanks should have a weapon, MG perhaps?
wow, guys this might be my 1st peice of advise but....use the search button I suggested this idea ages ago, and the dev's said that the NF heavy was intentionaly for mutli-crew. And they might impliment it later on (in writing this from memory is it might be a bit off)
Well, I did search, and problem with that is, you don't put in the right words, you don't get any results. I didn't suggest this at all with realism in mind. It was Kamikazi that suggested the realism. My purpose for suggesting was that it could be used to further balance tank fights. The communications problems aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. It requires very little communication actually. Several games already have similar setups implemented, (usually all their vehicles in general require it) and I've never had to tell a gunner where to shoot. The driver is given all the same hints the gunner is as to where enemies are shooting from, so the gunner is capable of reacting on his own. There would be no more confusion than being alone in a tank. (I speak from experience here.) Please look past this speculation in considering my idea.
The person aiming would be fucked with any inertia weapons my aiming with tank weapons I coordinate pretty directly with how I'm driving. Someone else driving changing directions and speed would make it a lot harder to aim.
Well, you could suppose that while you're riding along the driver up and decides to go in the other direction which, A: makes him a dumb driver because stopping and going in reverse means you have plenty of time where you are virtually at a standstill, and even more time where you are moving slow and B: because you are at a virtual standstill or moving very slow, any change is minimal. but what if the dumb driver drives up a hill while you are aiming, and the enemy is all of a sudden out of your pitch/yaw range? Well, the idea is that because there is an independent driver who can focus on his driving, this is even less likely to happen, unless strictly neccesary. A focused driver is less likely to crash his tank into the water, losing 1100+ resources. This also means you would have two people instead of one to tell you that a bridge is out, so overall tanks wouldn't be wasted as often
Yeah, the driver is at all times going to be able to figure out where the turret can and cannot hit. Rrrriiiigghhhtttt.
Right now, as a single operator, most people take a few shots to determine where they can and cannot hit. Logically though, a driver does know, as do most people now, that if you go up a steep hill the turret, can not aim up to reach to shoot. At any rate, thats besides the point, because my whole reason for suggesting this is for balancing purposes. If it makes it just a tad bit harder for a tank with 20 rail guns, a nuke, 3 machine guns, and a marching band to hit the little guy, so much the better.
it doesn't take a few shots, it takes no shots. tank drivers need to be constantly changing direction and rotating, which can't be transmitted to the person gunning. we already had this situation, because the gunner in seat 2 of vehicles used to turn at the same speed as the turret. it meant that gunning in seat 2 was totally pointless. sorry to sound so harsh
Krenzo already planned support for up to 4 turrets in 1 vehicle in code. ATM it only supports up to 1 turret.
Honestly, If its been done successfully in many other games, with none of your concerns being an issue, how can you justify this? If you don't like the idea, just say it, but don't make up reasons just to say I'm wrong. if i didn't know otherwise I'd say you were arguing my point. with only one person operating a vehicle, you can't constantly turn and rotate if you are busy firing at someone. Why? Because you have to look at the person you are firing at. My biggest supporting arguement is something they tell you about driving in real life day in and day out. You have to focus on the road. If you're shooting 30 different cannons at a guy 60 meters to your left, you can't possibly be watching whats in front of you. I shouldn't be able to kill mediums and heavies with a regular jeep just because they don't move.
I have to make a video of some average light tank drivers to prove how its possible to turn/drive like crazy and kill tanks / bases.
I reckon it would be a good idea to give the second person in a tank access to the MG, when it isnt being used by the main driver. The second player should also be enclosed in the tank.
This is the shittiest argument to support your case. Tank combat is completely different than other games. You are wrong, idea sucks and I don't like it. It would ruin the game if tanks had a driver/gunner. I fail to see how you can't drive turn and shoot at the same time. Have you ever played this game?
Simon: for example NF heavy with: 1 HE, 2 x upg ML, 1 ML and a machine gun. As Megel (or someone ) said NF heavy is getting side turrets or something like that. Splitting some of the firepower to 2 seats will be probably done.
Yeah splitting some of the firepower for the bigger slower tanks. But could you imagine this with LTs or even mediums?? It would ruin tank combat.
I'm pretty sure this suggestion was shot down a long time ago, but I can't quite recall and think it might have been on the other forums anyway, and times have certainly changed since then. That said, I still think a separate driver/gunner is a terrible idea. SH for bf42 did it in an attempt to encourage teamwork. Unfortunately, instead people would just grab a tank and drive off, switching positions to man the turret if they had to. It pretty much just served to make tank combat more annoying. When you're alone in a tank, it's not fun because it's such a hassle to keep switching positions to shoot and then drive. When you're waiting for someone to come gun/drive for you, it's not fun because you're not doing anything. On a more empires related note, when people drive their tanks to the front they will probably die because they can't move and shoot at the same time, thus costing the team lots of res/headaches/etc. The final reason it wouldn't work for Empires is because epic tank battles get cut in half if each tank needs 2 people to man it effectively. Suddenly instead of, say, 8v8, you have 4v4. You say your suggestion is primarily for balance. It introduces, however, far too many complications into gameplay to be workable.
