Seriously? Most new players if anything I've encountered the past week or so have been bitching about getting killed by riflemen so quickly that they can't even react, more than anything. And to be honest, I'm not really up to date on who the current regulars are, but like two days ago, somebody whom I assume is a fairly new player called bullshit when I ran over his mine and didn't die, which was what alerted me to this "bug" in the first place. If anything, I think mines are more new-player friendly (not as in absolute newbie, but somebody who has a general grasp of the game mechanics, but not really a well developed technique or whatever you want to call it yet), because they serve as kind of an equalizer. Add to this the fact that most regular players get HP upgrade when playing infantry as usually their second or maybe third skill, and if anything, making mines less powerful only makes the game harder on new players. I mean, the greatest consideration that prevents us from retaining new players is obviously going to be the toxic in-game community (and community in general), by far. At the end of the day, let's be honest: only the opinions of experienced players in Empires will really matter and determine whether or not version x, y, or z will retain said experienced players or not. New players will keep playing this game regardless, because they won't know enough about game mechanics half the time to call bullshit or not. But making it so that mines don't one-shot infantry - now that's just completely counter-intuitive.
i think the "toxicity" of this community is attributed to how incredibly shit it is to lose in empires. the game doesnt just end, instead its a slow grind to deafeat without barely a chance of a comeback. there is sort of a slippery slope, but its not pronounced enough to allow for a relatively quick win after the tipping point. i think thats one of empires worst issues. idk what to do about it either.
To be fair, I've noticed that there's a "surrender" plugin in use on the main server now, which has been useful in preventing matches from dragging on artificially. Also, wait, I've been reading the logs, and what does it mean that engines can output power when overheated? So sticky stuns don't lock down vehicles anymore? All tanks can move to some extent while overheated?
yes there is a surrender plugin, but giving up sucks for both teams. on the losing side it leaves the stale taste of not having tried hard enough, on the winning side you couldnt end the game properly. not the biggest fan and a "no" voter in the vast majority of cases. and also yes, i guess thats what it means.
I suppose. I think the single biggest reason for toxicity in Empires, though, is just the fact that a single new player can literally ruin an entire game quite easily. Get into the CV? Game lost. Buy a super expensive tank and throw it away, especially on a low res map? Game lost. Go scout (especially on a low pop server)? Game lost. It's just too easy to make scapegoats out of new players - and the worst part is, that it's really not too far from the truth that a new player who has no idea what he or she is doing can often be a major contributing factor to a loss. Thence springs the toxicity. Now, as for the toxicity on the forums... my theory is that this in-game toxicity ensures that only the most toxic of toxic of players stick around long enough to become a part of the community. Some mellow out after a while, and some don't. But, you know, it only takes one asshole to screw things up for everybody!
absolutely. but if losing wouldnt be such a drag (ive lost games over the course of half an hour and more) and you could just go to the next map and try again, it would be less of an issue. thats what i meant previously. a newbie got voted into the cv, even if you managed to vote him out, you lost precious 10minutes and unless something similar happend on the other side, its GG already even if the game goes on for quite a while. but on the other hand, you cant deny players to explore certain aspects of the game. at a point they have to learn and what teaches you better than trial and error. youll only get good if you fail a lot. youll only know your limits if you explore them. its a dilemma. even if you say, "new player cant buy tanks until they played x games", youll only delay their failures for x games.
Long grinds are avoided via the surrender plugin. That's literally what it's for, a similar mechanic is used in every big game that benefits from it (league, smite, starcraft. Not sure about dota?). The big thing about mines is that you don't always walk around the map at full health. In fact, a lot of combat time is spent at some fraction of your max HP. If you step on a mine after a bullet or cannon shell or two, you're gone. In the current patch, if you step on a mine placed where the frontline was five minutes ago, you get confused for a bit before you understand what happened, but at least you are still up and don't have to wait for a respawn and another run back to the fight. That and denying certain areas by drop and forget mechanics are the big reasons why I'm a proponent of the change.
Dota doesnt have a surrender plug in cause comebach mechanics are a thing there which empires doesnt have. Also surrender plug in is stupid, only happens when noobs also realize game is over -> rax being camped, base completely overrun = games ending in the next 5 minites if you surrender or not. I havent seen an actual good usage of surrender plug in cause idiots get to vote for it. Its like democracy in general, it doesnt work because not everyone is informed or smart enough Tldr long grinds arent avoided by the plugin dont kid yourself.
Yeah, the only times I've seen surrender work is basically when the enemy really could win in the next 2 minutes because all bases are down. I don't care if it seems crappy though, I like because I honestly get pissed at the other team for not pushing in on the last part. I know they have decent players for it. Don't except much from being able to move your tank from a stun, it's about the same as fission has been for the past year or 2(I can't even remember when it was added to fission.) I'm not sure why you'd call mines an equalizer, that kinda assumes new players remember to drop them. They don't, even people with 100 hours forget the power of mines. So yeah I do think this helps new players more then older players, the only people dropping mines anyway.
You just cant say that a solution to current long grinds is the surrender plugin. Its definitely rather a balance issue. or well...current group of players playing. Back then you had people organizing rushes and last pushes and such. No such thing today.
The surrender plugin doesn't work in every single case where it should be used (which is also a subjective thing. Very, very subjective). Part of it goes down to people not being aware of its existence or functionality, part of it goes down to people not seeing the game as hopelessly lost. Just because your opinion isn't that of (an overwhelming, not even constitutional) a majority doesn't mean democracy is flawed. EDIT @Neoony I'm not talking about long grinds a la Slaughtered, I'm talking about one team rushing level 3s and sieging the final barracks of a clueless team instead of shooting the CV. The former are a result of multiple things, balance notwithstanding.
To joke around. You want a community who hates maps like escort/money/... which majority doesnt want, but it still gets voted in every single time....and you need half a server to make a yes vote Just no. It just happens so often in this game, that people will simply vote the exact opposite of what everyone wants, just to troll em And you can clearly see that happen a lot
And that is why you need admins with enough courage to overrule certain votes. Although I'm still absolutely baffled about the popularity of escort, it's brutally unfair to NF in the current meta.
Wow, its like you are speaking from my mind. An admin capable of figuring out whats the best for current situations. Instead of just throwing more votes in and expecting that the clueless players will decide better
When surrender plugin should be used is less and less so a subjective thing when the PLAYING empires group doesnt work as a team anymore to win. Theres no apc rushes, theres no tank rushes, every pug game is just a slow siege to the end. It becomes objective for players like me and you, even though you dont want to admit it, to realize mid game whos going to win the game. I bet if I specced every game I could tell you what team would win at 20-30 min mark like more than 90 percent of the time. Also its more like the surrender plugin only works in very few casuses instead of doesnt work in every single case. You make it seem like it works in most cases which it absolutely does not. My oppinion is completely the opposite the minority. I would like to use the plugin when I Realize the game is over. But like you say people dont see the game as hopelessly lost. This is attributed to the fact that most of those people dont fucking know when a game is lost if you put a lost game in their face. Thats why democracy doesnt work uninformed and stupidity.
i can tell the outcome of a game by looking at the scoreboard the second the round starts. (in pubs at least)
Fully agree on this point. That is the nature of surrenders in pubs though, and I don't see a good way of addressing this problem.
maybe it wouldnt need the surrender vote if the slippery slope would be more pronounced? but its tricky and (way) easier said than done. and i wasnt speaking about the edge case where a team intentionally just locks in the enemy in their base to rank up kills at all.
Just so you know, there's no runoff vote on nubs, so a map can win with like 21%. I regularly see maps win with 30%, that kinda sucks.