sorry for long post... The bridge in the middle is key to getting infantry onto the otherside of the map. It's going to be hotly contested whether or not there are res flags there. Forcing teams to fight through the middle or lose a big chunk of res to the enemy doesn't improve the map, I've found. Instead of a double flag over the canyon, I'd add too extra res nodes on each side of the canyon, In 'rotationally symmetric' positions, not too far from the bridge. I'd love for the bridge to be a big battleground area to fight over. This will also improve the map by allowing teams to have two distinct territories, one on each side of the bridge, without either team claiming a middle, which puts a lot of pressure on the other team and less pressure on the winning team. thus, a surge into enemy territory is a bigger event and the fight while the match is even is more fun for both teams fighting in the floor of the canyon should be encoraged. No suggestion yet, but I think that could be made more of a feature. don't put water down there as it's good to be able to move/fight through the canyon. definately flatten as many areas as you can to make them base suitable. I totally agree that the refinaries at the edges are too far away, as difficult as it sounds, just pulling those corners in as in mayamas diagram would massively help the map. perhaps add a lot of rocks/debris/ruins to an area about the size of 3 VFs on either side of the bridge. this might improve gameplay over the bridge area, by pushing the barracks near the bridge a bit further apart, because then it means that players that have come over the bridge won't destroy the enemy barracks there right away before being in enemy territory. This is good because while the enemy barracks is still a bit further back, there can be a bigger fight to stop people flooding over the bridge and establishing a base in the enemy territory. If, as currently, the barracks is right next to the bridge entrance, then it's the first thing to die and needs to be destroyed before enemies get into your territory, by which point it's too late to fight over your territory and stop people sneaking past. In summary, push the barrack's back from the bridge to make fighting over that area more flexible and varied.
Dont place shit where nobody wants to go like the canyon. People wont go their even if theirs a instant win button. Dont ask me why they refuse to do obvious stuff but you can see it on every map in every game played.
To be honest i'm kinda ignoring the remarks about the edges being too far, as that is where the teams have always gone when i played. Many commanders have ordered us to take NE and SW and to push up from there, and to only stop the enemy at the bridge as trying to take it/hold it costs a lot of tickets while giving no real benefit. I can remember but one time that almost half the team went to the middle, and we lost that match when the enemy armada of tanks rushed in from north and west and took our own half of the map. Usually people try to build a rax in NE or SW as a temporary forward spawn, so they can start spawning there and rush up the ramps so they can build a strong forward base on the entrance of the canyon on the enemy side. Immediately after you come out of the canyon there's a huge area to build anything you want ... this is the case on all 4 ramps. Once you get a base up there it's hard for the enemy to get it down again. If they do you still have your temporary base in the canyon corners. If you go through the middle, you lose a lot of time, and even if you do get it and push back the enemy, you have to get all the way over the hills to the flat area. That's why i thought i rarely saw people use the bridge, as the hills are easy to defend against invaders coming from the bridge. Going through the (bunker-)tunnel however does get you right into an enemy bunker overseeing most of the hills so you can attack them from behind while the rest of your team tries to push from the middle (front), but it's often still easier to rush the enemy by going through the canyon itself. It's what i've almost always seen happen. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ I'd prefer giving the flag only x1 resources (i've removed the x2 from the minimap anyway as resources from flags don't increase when the amount of players increases, contrary to resources from refineries), so more people will realize that the middle is only good if you have a valid tactic in mind. Now many think it gives more resources because of the x2, which is in fact not true at all. I agree on making the existance of the tunnels more visible. But just a sign "Hey there's a tunnel 20m to the right" just looks dumb I'm trying to find something that works but fits the map. I'm not sure about linking the bunkers with tunnels. I'm no fan of tunnels normally, and in this case i think it would do more harm than good.
People dont care how many resources middle gives, people dont go their cause its important. They clusterfuck their cause of the same reason as they do at the dam on mvalley or in the middle of silo. People want to go where it is the most fun to play cause of the surounding. Look at emp_kingunderthemountains. Their are tons of really big signs, the majority of the players ignores them. Most people dont want to explore a map they want fun. Tunnels ad nothing to the game, they only give the handfull of people that uses them a unfair advantage. Moving SE and NW closer to middle would do alot cause most people dont want to walk, they want action, now. In every arid game I played I saw like 2-5 people go in the corners. The rest which is alot on a full 64 slot server camps middle. If you want people to go to those corners without moving it closer to middle add interesting and good looking architecture their that is equal attractive as the bridge. Dont take it personal but I dont think its a good idea to give the same mapper that did the map the map to overhaul it because theirs no chance for a different point of view like your whole post shows that you dont think anyone here that suggested something is right exept signs for tunnels "cough"...
Tunnels are good as obvious shortcuts. otherwise people won't really take them. Too much of a risk when you run through a tunnel a long way just to get killed by a random turret/scout.
this post holds much truth but also the original mapper decides what happens and if he does not want to do what is considered "needed" by whoever gets to decide that then i guess you can always make it a custom map again
my though exactly, mapper will always defend his work and rarely he will listen even to obvious complains
I agree with mayama really. silk, you should seriously consider moving the edges in. players do go to the edges out of neccessity, but it's very removed from the actual map and far too far for any infantry in the middle to be worth the walk to.
If someone else did it, he'd have to ask me for permission to change something anyway. I asked CB before i made this topic if it's still considered my map or that i have to change it in ways i would not want now that it's official. Apparantly all empires map are still property of the original creator, so arid is still my child as well. I could have someone else change it, but i wouldn't give him permission to alter the map in certain ways anyway. After thinking about this it is probably for the best cause it assures a wide range of different maps. Immediately after i made the previous post i saw that arid was being played on g4tc and so i joined. Again most of us went to the corners, and we had some good fights. We've lost some areas and gained some but i enjoyed it a lot. In the end we won. Apart from the middle red flag the entire map was covered in blue. Several people of both factions called it a good game, and no one complained, as both factions did have times where they could become the stronger team. For those who find the corners too far try suggesting things that make the paths to the corners more interesting, cause i really want to keep the canyon as large as possible. Maybe i could give it a little more resources so there are more tanks for transport, or i could add ropes at some places so infantry can climb up on the hills. Some area of interest between the corners and the main bases might be interesting. I don't know, i was hoping i'd see some suggestions concerning this. The things i consider to be annoying in arid so far: 1) No use of smaller bridges except when someone happens to be there 2) There's a lot more room in the SW corner to build a base than in the NE corner 3) From below in the corners you can't defend against people on the hills very well 4) While the canyon was meant for vehicles to move from one corner to the other, if infantry get stranded there they have to walk a lot 5) Many are not aware of the tunnels - I could mostly solve # 3 and #4 by making it possible for infantry to climb up the hills on the edges of the canyon. - Some signs should solve #5 - Making the NE corner bigger will be extremely hard, but we'll see - I have no real solution for #1 A problem is (although it's strange to call it a problem) that the map currently is balanced. Both teams win equally as much. Yet one team has a larger area, the other has a small bridge guarding a corner while the other hasn't, ... etc, so there are some changes with a big impact on the gameplay but in a way that it's fair for both teams in the end. If i'd make the NE corner bigger so it can be used to build a base there, the BE bridge will control that area and it will be unfair (eventhough # 2 will be fixed this way and #1 partially). Maybe i could then move up the NF bridge to cover the SW corner and this could make it fair again while entirely solving #1, but i'm not so sure about that. If someone told me to change the map right now without asking for suggestions, this is what i would do by lack of a better idea. Do give suggestions, just try to respect my wishes for my own map, and you'll see that you can still reach your goal but that you just have to be more creative in order to do so. Edit: Also be glad i tell all this. I could do like most devs used to do, say that i read all your suggestions, then not react to it and do whatever i want with the map. You'd all think your opinions matter and not complain to me, while in fact you'd just be lying to yourself
SUGGESTION TO MAKE CORNERS AND TUNNEL MORE APPEALING: make the tunnel work more extensive, let them lead to the corners and add flags in it, flags that spawn for example, on each side 2 in between the pillboxes and the corner canyons flags even if they don't do anything make places more interesting and thus more used
You should start to think about why people didnt even mention those 5 points exept number 5. Heres a hint: Maybee people think their are other problems with the map than you think their are. Your whole post revolves around that you are disapointed that nobody found one of the problems that you think are problematic. That their are other problems is impossible... Are you aware that those threads are about how to make those maps better so EVERYBODY enjoys it? The spotlight thread motto isnt "You are allowed to suggest me stuff but im aware that im the genius that knows how it should be"
okay this is getting a bit heated, lets cool it down a bit, especially you mayama. If you and Silk go head to head, he has the right to be right about how he wants the map because he is the person creating, with the artistic vision and you are just a critic.
If he only want his own opinion he shouldnt start a thread like this, simple as that. His whole thread is just about that he just wants to hear people approve the flaws he thinks are the problem. Whats the logic behind making a map official, a part of the whole mod but refusing to integrate it.
see this thread. http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=4329&highlight=insult+the+commander It's not that you arn't right. I'm telling you not to make this ugly. He doesn't deserve it.
most new commanders make the inherent mistake to think they are in charge of the battlefield and its units
Uhm I seriously dont want to bitch and whine its just that I think we would have a better empires if everyone colaborates with everyone
i agree, but generally if you start ordering around people and they do not respond well to that then you have a problem i would like to see the "commander" renamed to a more supportive name, even in scrims and clan matches the commander is not always the one in charge
You can't be serious. The commander is the guy that has time to kick back and look at the big picture... how could he not be in charge? It's not that I don't trust you, I'm just amazed... sure, in organised games, it might fall to a squad leader to arrange the pre match tactics, but when the crap hits the fan and you have to improvise and adjust your battle plans, the commander is the man in charge. Anyway good to see that this thread is chilled now.
he's not able to throw his cv into the enemy lines without it being called griefing because the admins are babies and can't take being ordered around
