Level 3 turrets are a pain on infantry only maps, and at the start of most games. The idea is to only allow an engineer with turret upgrade to upgrade his turret to level 2 without "upgraded turrets lvl3" being researched. This has the advantage of allowing the mapper to disable lvl3 turrets on non commanding maps easily by not having the item researched. Pros: Allows mappers to disable lvl3 turrets easily Stops early lvl3 turrets from tying up choke points on commanding maps Cons: if the commander does not research it you cannot make lvl3 turrets Alternatives: Make it require different research to activate Make lvl2 require research as well
Early level 3's at chokepoints on com maps aren't an issue, as 3 RPG rounds will kill it. Also, having an array of lvl 3's at a choke point on a com map is more a sign of a good team than anything else. Don't think in terms of infantry maps when thinking of ways to balance the game.
I would quite like to see LVL3 the highest engies can go with turret upgrade, and LVL2 the highest the highest commanders can place with research.
In most games I play there is rarely a gren in the first push for refineries, as apart from trying to mortar the enemies' forward barracks there is not much for them to do. Therefore when lvl3s are placed the other team builds walls to block it and by doing so make that the front line. This can push the area being contested away from the refinery/choke point. This helps the lvl3 building team hold the ground and solidify their control over it. By the time vehicles come out lone lvl3s are not a problem, it is just that until then they are a problem.
They are not a pain at the start of any game I've played (except maybe on Crossroads, which is a map issue.) Mortars + seismics can kill them easily. And infantry-only maps don't matter. If you only care about infantry-only maps, why not just request a map-specific setting to limit turret level, so it can only be used on infantry-only maps? Why are you insistent about nerfing turrets everywhere? They're already pretty underpowered on most comm maps; if anything, they could use a buff or two. Well, it would seem you're wrong about that, wouldn't it? Putting aside the fact that attacking the enemy's forward rax is an absolutely vital goal (seriously, wha? That's like saying "aside from constructing refs, engineers are useless in the early game!"), Grens are valuable for dealing with turrets (although Engineers can do it to an extent, too, and can also drop cover). The answer to your problem is not "nerf turrets so we don't have to bring grens", but "bring some damn grens." Balancing should be aimed at making as many classes as possible as useful at all points of the game. What you described (with people often not using grens early on) is actually an argument for making early game turrets stronger and increasing their impact on the game, not weakening them, since encouraging people to use a variety of classes is always a desirable goal. ...I do think that giving scouts better ways to deal with turrets would be a good idea; making them important for negating early-game turrets would be excellent. But alongside that, turrets should probably be buffed overall, so the new scout anti-turret capabilities will be important.
That is a sound idea for curbing turret farms. I stand by removing infinite turret ammo and requiring that they be re-supplied.
Level 3 turret farms aren't a problem. Early level 3 turrets aren't a problem, do you guys play with your feet or something?
