Locked Spec

Discussion in 'General' started by JustGoFly, Dec 21, 2017.

?

Open spec after 30 seconds?

  1. Yes

    31.3%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Don't care

    18.8%
  1. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Removing SPEC to "make the game more fun" is certainly having an opposite effect.

    There is a faction of players that actually like to take a break from the game, crack jokes and chat in spec. I got to know more players from hanging in spec than I have in the last year playing the game with no spec. So now everyone is anonymous and that is horrible for the game.

    I know some have a 3 minute timeout - but 30 seconds is all you need. By the time 3 minutes has ticked down, I'm gone. So let's get some data to help the admins understand whether this is just my opinion or others feel Spec should be opened - either from start of game or no longer than a 30 second wait.
     
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  2. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    I'm in two minds about this, the more people the better but people not playing the game are just treating it as a chat room and are better off yapping on the forums or something.
     
  3. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Teamspeak, Skype, Discord, Steam, IRC, Ventrilo, Mumble... Need I say more?
     
  4. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I like spec so I can make snide remarks about people's commanding ability.
     
  5. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    1. If you want to take a break from the game, support and choose intermission maps! Ricochet, crackdown, modified district, so forth. They take several minutes from map change to map change, you are free to bumble around as a spectator, and people who actually want to play the game still have a bite sized chunk of it to consume.

    2) You can still chat when unassigned, just...without moving about.

    3) The tendency to sit about for many minutes at the beginning of a round is not conducive to good gameplay. When a large portion of the server decides to skip the beginning of the map, either said beginning becomes a drag for the actual players because they are forced to stretch extra thin to cover all the crucial areas of the map, or the map as a whole starts off fine, with the actual player count fit for it, and becomes a huge grindy mess once people finish their "break" 5-10 minutes in. The player trickle effect only makes this worse.
     
  6. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I think it's better to have all-talk on while people are joining teams, so they can both chat and get to know each other and have the game start properly. Three to five minutes before a game is fine. I can think of games that need you to wait in queue for much more. You can achieve both goals by motivating certain players to join :p. This could help with the issues JustGoFly and Destroyer mentioned and relate to. It's worth noting that sometimes spectator is used for learning through observation and stuff.

    I remember TheCreeper had an idea to remove spec and replace it with EmpiresTV, which would be basically spec but on an other server. I think it would be streamed or something not sure. Back then there were still issues like "server is full need to kick specs". I don't know if it's actually worth the effort, I think that's why he abandoned the project. It's be kinda like twitch but integrated in Empires in some way and be able to look freely instead of watching an insividual playing.
     
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  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I also believe that the downtime between rounds is nigh unusable for anything short of a walk around your room. The commander vote should already have the players' full attention on the upcoming game instead of being used as break time, this screws with team organisation during a critical phase.

    All talk disallows strategic discussion over voice chat, which is a bit of a bummer, since you are essentially left with the final 60 seconds with it turned off to get everyone up to speed on the plan.
     
  8. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    That's already the case, all-talk is on until both Commanders have been elected, which is often three to five minutes time.

    Finally, someone who has played other games and understands that Empires doesn't have such a long wait time after all.

    I think we all know that never happens, people don't take time to learn the game properly they just want to play. But they can ask.

    It's sourceTV, I had the same idea, but SourceTV isn't working properly. And yes a modified version of SourceTV where players can fly around like in spectator would be nice.
     
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  9. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    It's between 90 and 240 seconds on my server, you must be talking about ESB.
     
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  10. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Separate communication channels could help. There's team chat. There could be a Commander map plannner, similar to the strategy planner with MS paint and penises on the minimap. Commander Log too. But of course I would prefer if there were channels for all talk and team talk at the same time. All-talk would just be disabled after the game starts. And squad voice chat would be nice too. The game uses too many button though, class, vehicle menu, squads etc. There could be one single menu for all these things, so there could be no problem like "omg too many voice chats, which button should I bind for all/team/chat voice channels? I just feel like I shouldn't have to use teamspeak and I feel like this should be a feature since the game NEEDS to promote teamwork as it is what makes the game currently fun to play.
     
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  11. Thexa4

    Thexa4 Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    If server owners could enable SourceTV I can try debugging the issues.
     
  12. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Didn't we already do that? When I posted the bug report.

    Also isn't Empires Vanilla your server? It's probably easier if you do with your own. Unless you mean you need players to debug it.

    I will turn it on on mine but I won't be available to help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  13. Thexa4

    Thexa4 Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks, just having one online with players will probably help.
     
  14. Thexa4

    Thexa4 Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Have a fix ready for spec view position selection in SourceTV.
    Do you think you could enable tv_transmitall 1?
     
  15. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Done, good call.
    Right, so you can move around freely but you still only see a part of the map. Also we should probably move this conversation to this bug report thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  16. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    To throw a completely random idea... :D

    How about to earn a spec time, by doing a play time?
    (...could most probably make such a plugin...)

    But yeah, SourceTV solved, would be awesome.
    ...not only for spectating :P


    But generally, I gotta agree that locking spec does encourage playing.
    You rather play, than sitting in a single position "unassigned" view. Unless you truly need a break of AFK.
    EDIT: Its often just about the "willingness to play"...

    But, it is indeed a price to pay.
    Just depends on if you only look at it from your own current perspective, or from an objective one.

    But observing others to learn the game, is a valid point, in my opinion.
    But then...you can do that after the timer and you have already chosen the way of patience :P
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  17. bunnyhopper

    bunnyhopper Member

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    But you would always lock spec...
     
  18. Mikleo

    Mikleo Member

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    Really I think you should be able to fly around the map at the start of the game when you join a team. Just set the transmit state of enemy buildings so they aren't visible. It would mean you can look and plan where you are going rather than being frozen in one place. Being frozen is what causes most of the frustration of the comm vote.

    Edit: the latest version of squadcontrol does this. provided you press space. We'll see how it gos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  19. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    In addition to what Mikleo said, gives a bit more of map awareness to newbies. Good to check around. Even though I like exploration, during a game it's something you don't have time to do xD
     
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  20. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    I'm claiming that this was one of those fun things in Empires that has been removed. I believe we open spec on ESB now, but the guys who want to force you into a game are succeeding in more rapidly emptying servers. I enjoyed talking to other players about the game, and no one playing could hear what we said unless all talk was on. Yes and some were snide remarks. So what - that is not the reason spec is locked. The reason was to force people to play.

    If you are locked in one location - it's not the same, it's boring, and very few people hang out to talk. It also was the way I learned to play the game. I watched good players and learned their techniques. I practiced those techniques. It also aided in helping new players when you see them doing something dumb. Even if all-talk was off. Hell last time I played I watched a new player drop building after building on a 1v1 match. It took a few minutes to teach him to come out as engineer and use his calculator to build. He ended up really enjoying the match, even though he started way behind. I told him what to research and how to arm tanks. He ended up winning the match, and he learned about tactics, and healing his own tank, dropping ammo. None of which would have been possible had Spec been locked.

    Spec can result in ghosting - true, but to claim that locking it makes the game more fun, is incorrect. You will have far fewer players reaching VET level if you keep it locked. They will join and just wonder why they can't improve, then they go away. And if they are in a game dieing over and again, they have no recourse but to quit, instead of watching how the guy who was killing them is doing it.
     
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