Limit ammoz for tanks

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by aaaaaa50, Feb 15, 2012.

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Should ammo be limited for tanks?

  1. Yes.

    64.0%
  2. No.

    36.0%
  1. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    I LOL HARD when I see people contesting reverts as if they are new changes. Seriously the "omg, I can't believe this, if Empires turns into that kinda game, it'll be terrible!" Turn into? Lolz.

    We don't really need ammo, we need something that acts as the same mechanism (read; adds depth/strategy to tank combat) but isn't shite (like fuel) or kinda crappy (like ammo).

    You probably shouldn't do anything until someone can brainstorm that. And no, repairs don't count.
     
  2. Demented

    Demented Member

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    By depth/strategy, we mean something that causes your tank to stop doing tank things if you're too far away from the rest of the battle?

    Hm.

    What about a leash? If you get too far away from an engineer, it snaps and your tank goes flying off into the sunset.
     
  3. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    That would be awesome.
     
  4. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Nah, I meant more like something that adds another dimension other than ram/shoot. You know, like a grappling hook :D
     
  5. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    jet pack
     
  6. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Empires: Tank parking simulator.
     
  7. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Hmmph...

    You're acting as if it was ever anything more.
     
  8. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Well right now it's driving around like an idiot shooting explosives everywhere simulator. It's actually quite fun.
     
  9. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    thus why you let the big ass structure refill instantly and make ammoboxes infantry only. reppads cant be placed right infront the enemy and are generally limited by their huge footprints.

    im undecided on armories, i think slow refilling like ammoboxes did would be okish, though id prefer only reppads.
     
  10. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Don't kid yourself. The 'shooting explosives' bit only exists to balance the parking.
     
  11. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    or give unlimited ammo for infantry, its way worse to run back to an armory then driving to a rep pad in a tank.
    it takes trice the time minimum, you are prone to infantry AND tank attacks and have i mentioned that it takes forever?

    what is this game about? standing around looking at scenery? seriously, it would be so more fun if infantry would have unlimited ammoz ... :headshot:

    dont you get how absurd your arguments are?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  12. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Replace parking with 'petty supply transporting'.
     
  13. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    It's actually sitting, since we're parking.
     
  14. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Well actually unlimited infantry ammo would probably make a variety of things more interesting, for one you could have actual suppressive fire be a valid tactic, sheer weight of bullets hitting a place might make people keep their heads down while your guys advance. Not to mention it'd make charging a defence much more cinematic because everyone would be shooting while doing it, which looks much cooler.

    Of course some things would need to be limited, like grenades and mortar rounds, maybe RPGs too, but simple bullets? Yeah you could make them unlimited easily, and I'd suggest making the grenades regenerate over time rather than making them ammo-box based, that way you use them more if you have full grenades, but at the same time you can't spam them.

    Really the only good argument for limited ammo on infantry is convention, it'd be very odd to have limitless ammo on guns in the empires setting, about the only game I think that did it well was mass effect, because it's space and the space guns can shoot however many space bullets they like.

    Perhaps some sort of tradeoff would be little robots that fly out from APCs/squad leaders and give ammo to soldiers near them, something highly mobile and which gives you effectively limitless ammo, but still lets you keep actual ammo in the game for convention's sake. Basically like the borderlands magic flying medpack/ammo turret ability, only slightly less odd looking. Or you could just give every really large ammo counts and make it refill really fast if you stand near an ammo box.

    Ammo boxes in general are less of a problem for infantry because as infantry, you generally don't move as much as tanks. With tanks you have to stop driving around and dodging fire and flanking and all the stuff you normally do in a tank, with infantry you just have to stay in cover for a bit, which you do anyway because that's how infantry play.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  15. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    thats why its industry standard i assume? :rolleyes:

    all you guys see is that you have to refill ammo at a point and that this prevents you from going on killing. you completely ignore all effects supply lines have on gameplay with the argument "its fun" - which is actually no argument but an individual perception.
    you cannot plan a game purely from the giving side, you have to consider the receiver too.

    whats next? remove reloading its boring ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  16. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    It's industry standard because REALISM.

    And also it does work for a lot of games. In singleplayer games for example, it is part of the difficulty, giving you infinite ammo would generally make the game horribly easy because you wouldn't have to aim very much, or manage your different weapons. Bear in mind that if you had unlimited ammo for every gun, you'd just use the best gun all the time, and you wouldn't really bother exploring much.

    But, that said, most games do give you more ammo than you need. Half life 2 actually has a quite complex system designed to keep you at about three quarters full on health and ammo. If you are really in need of it, those supply crates you find? Those have more stuff in them. If you're full on health and ammo, they have like one battery or something in them. It rubberbands enormously. There's a whole set of options in the editor for making the game easier if you're having trouble.

    Thing is, with a game like empires, you have one gun, and a huge load of other team members with you, so it isn't about individual skill with the gun, and it isn't about resource management because you don't have carefully planned out encounters, ammo drops, or that sort of thing. Most of the time you'll have loads of ammo as an infantryman because there's going to be an ammobox near you, and you'll contribute really very little to a fight because there'll be ten other guys helping you out, all of whom are as good at the game as you.

    So in that instance, you have effectively limitless ammo, and no penalty for spraying it at everything you see, aside from attracting attention from the enemy anyway. So giving people ACTUAL limitless ammo helps them see their situation more clearly, and gets them thinking 'well, if I have infinite ammo, why not use it freely?' and then they start doing things like shooting simply because they can, it might not hit anything, but there's a chance it will, and that gives way to interesting ideas like suppressing and advancing, more cinematic gameplay with bullets flying around like mad, and generally makes the game much more fluent, because you don't need to stop and hump the ammo box every now and then.

    It would shift the focus onto maneuvering and squad tactics, 'everyone hide behind this rock and rearm' is not a tactic. Really ammo boxes encourage stagnation in the gameplay because you never want to move too far from the ammo box, if you have no reason to stay where you are, you'll start looking for ways to advance. The attitude at the moment is 'we're here, we have ammo, we're close enough, let's stay here until the enemy goes away'. It should be 'we're here, can we get closer?'.
     
  17. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    I dont know about other people but when I play "for real" without mindlesly rushing into enemys I usually only die when im out of ammo.

    Usually I never camp ammo boxes or armorys if its not necassery, I just rush into enemys and try to kill them. Only when pushing the enemy back would not accomplish anything (like when theirs no chokepoint to brake through or the enemy rax we attack does not defend a ref) I camp crates like an asshole.


    Edit: Camping crates is a valid tactic because you can hold any position with a team, half the size, of the attacking force if you do it.
     
  18. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Mm, well you're in the minority I'd say, it's a fairly common complaint I have from commanders that people don't push very well. They are generally fairly content to get close enough to shoot and then sit in cover with an ammo box and rev engy.
     
  19. aaaaaa50

    aaaaaa50 Member

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    What supply lines? Our Engineers can give unlimited ammunition anywhere. Hell, a single Engineer is your supply line, and that's a huge part of Empires.
     
  20. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    DROP AMMO NOOB!
    "sorry I have cooldown".

    :)
     

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