"Improved Vehicle Damage" Rifleman Skill

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by The Buttery Lobster, Feb 26, 2009.

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How often do you use the Improved Vehicle Damage skill?

Poll closed Mar 28, 2009.
  1. Always

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  2. Frequently

    2 vote(s)
    2.7%
  3. Sometimes

    6 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. Barely Ever

    15 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. Never

    47 vote(s)
    64.4%
  6. Not sure, don't know

    2 vote(s)
    2.7%
  1. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    This is the third poll in a series of polls whose goal it is to analyze the usefulness of this Rifleman skill. I made the exact same poll pre-2.0, and in 2.1. The poll is straightforward. Don't vote on how much you would use the skill, or how useful you THINK the skill is. Vote by how often you actually select the skill in a game.
    I hope that the results of this poll, and previous polls, will attract the dev's attention; I would like to help bring attention to any balancing that needs done.

    Highlight text to read further. Please vote before doing so, as I don't want to influence the results of the voting and this section contains a brief personal opinion. I'll post the links to the old polls below.

    In the interest of full disclosure, it is my opinion that this skill is useless, and needs serious buffing. Previous polls will support this claim. Dizzyone has also provided a detailed mathematical analysis showing how weak the skill is. However, I won't link to it said data because A. I am too lazy to find it at the moment (a quick advanced search should take care of that) and B. the analysis is from older versions of the mod.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  2. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  3. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    i use it when i am going to roll out a heavy tank, because it was my understanding that it increases the % of damage with a set amount

    so the more damage you do, the higher that gain,


    it could be completely useless without me knowing... but i still do it for some reason
     
  4. Alias

    Alias Member

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    hmmmm

    I feel that the skills otherwise provided to the Rifleman do not suit the class as a "pilot" - as such if I am driving a vehicle I go Grenadier. I would much rather be a Grenadier with Defusal, Armor Detection, and Extra Armor in any vehicle than a Rifleman with Extra Damage.
     
  5. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    Is this the yearly poll?
    But I'm usually gren or engineer while in a tank..
     
  6. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    like improved infantry weapon damage its completly useless, all skills that give a 10% bonus in empires are not good enought to choose them.
     
  7. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

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    But even if they gave a 50% bonus would you use them instead of defusal or repair upgrade? I am of the opinion that you should move all the vehicle upgrade skills to the class most suited to vehicle driving (either engineer or grenadier IMO).
     
  8. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    I am a newbie here, but I use it when our team has a strong position and we just need to kill them faster. Usually this is pretty rare. Personally I think all the % vehicle skills are terrible, but I wish they were good.

    I would love to use the scout vehicle upgrade more, but I can't seem to find a justifiable use for it most the time. 10% speed is never where they limiting factors kick in. In a match that is about the same as firing one more shot in a fight.

    It takes alot of shots nowadays.
     
  9. o_O

    o_O Member

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    Its useless because if your driving you should be gren for armor/defusal/detection/arty or an engi for ammoz/repairs/cooling. Give it to engi to encourage people to use them as the tanking class.

    On the other hand, people are going to tank as scouts/rifleman anyway, so they might as well have a tanking skill I guess. It could also be improved enough to make those classes somewhat useful at tanking, allthough grengies would still be better at it overall.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  10. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    They already have tremendous advantages over the other classes, making engineers good at everything isn't the best way to design the game. Rather than that, it would be better if there was at least one general skill for vehicles such that soldier and scout could become valid choices for driving aswell. Perhaps having increased ammo affect it, or a skill that increased rate of fire.
     
  11. Lollum

    Lollum Tester++

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    I have never used that skill and it is going to stay like that. Because seriously, +8 damage for an UML is ridiculous. Same goes to the other increased damage-skill
     
  12. Fricken Hamster

    Fricken Hamster Mr. Super Serious

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    I like many of you guys have never used vehicle damage upgrade as a rifleman because riflemen aren't suppose to be in tanks. Grenadiers are good for strictly tank battles, having defusal, extra armor, and armor detection(works wonders). Engineers are good because they can repair and ammo themselves while acting as medievac reviving and restocking people. Scouts are teh awesomest. They can have speed an invisibility allowing them to get through defences. Riflemen can shoot people because they have the big guns. Their guns are their only major advantage over the other classes. In a tank, you can't use your gun. When I enter a tank, if I'm a rifleman and I get seat 1 I change seats immediately. The only one time I remember rifleman in a tank being useful was recently during a snowbound game. I entered someone's abandoned apc and started guning people down fromt he turret. the APC gave me health and ammo, and when the light tanks came, I hamstered my way into seat 1 and killed them with HE MG. I kicked ass. This should never happen, there should have been someone else to take drivers seat and I was not using vehicle damage upgrade.

    Suggestion:
    Why not just have vehicle damage come with damage upgrade?
    have 2 effectiveness debatable skills merged into one hopefully worthwhile skill.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
  13. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    I didn't mean for this to be a yearly poll, but I feel strongly about the uselessness of the skill and I thought the issue would be rectified by now. Hell, I thought the issue would be fixed a day after the FIRST poll. I mean, for god's sake, NO ONE uses the god damn skill.
     
  14. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    Skills like this would be much better if it gave a set amount of damage as a bonus.
     
  15. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    That would make it not scale properly early to late game, a set bonus does not realistic work in a system like this. It is quite possible that there would simply need to be a higher multiplier as the damage-output section of tank improvement requires significant improvement to be worthwhile in this.

    It makes sense that it would need to be higher than, lets say, armor increase. Armor can be repaired just as quickly regardless of the situation but suddenly becomes stronger when piloted. This only affects certain situational aspects minorly.
     
  16. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    personally i would keep the "skills" infantry effect only

    research should determine the effect of vehicles, not skill points...

    maybe with the exclusion of grens anti mine skill, or make that a research...
     
  17. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    i would normally agree with you. After all, I enjoy the RPG type aspects of leveling up skills. However, the advanced RPG research has worked out quite well, and nowadays, I just don't know if one could so easily differentiate between skill and research categories.
     
  18. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Oops, I thought you said "Improved Damage" not "Improved Vehicle Damage" disregard that vote lol.
     
  19. Mr. Weedy

    Mr. Weedy I will report bugs on the bug tracker

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    I use it sometimes, the damage boost isn't any noticable but it is ok choice when you have HE mg on your APC or when you have two skills open and you have already chosen accuracy upgrade for your rifle.

    But I think it would be a lot more useful if it gave... 15% boost instead of 10%. Thats' barely anything, or maybe even 20% but that may be a bit too much.
     
  20. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    i like my poll because almost all the replies increase exponentially, from 2^x. But judging from those numbers, i need a new answer between barely ever, and never. That way it'll make a nice curve from 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32; instead of jumping from 8 to 32.
     

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