[idea] drastical gameplay change (APC/CV)

First Words:
i know some ppl will outrange - despite the fact it's just an idea!
but i hope those ppl can breath 3 times and come out of theire small badcave - please read, mind about it and provide some arguments!

Regarding APC:
atm the balancing makes it a cheap rolling spawnpoint that noone would risk to enter because even 2 RPG shots are often enough to kill it!
also it can't be used for it's purpose for being an infantry killing machine because of the (compared to other vehicles) tiny max weight it provides (it's role originally was meant to be weak vs other vehicles as counterbalance to it's infantry killing capabilitys!)
that all was done to balance the attached spawn point - in the past it was a gameender to drive a fully equiped apc in enemy base because it was neight unstopable! (and ppl just spawn endless until apc destruction - wich is quite hard if the whole enemy team spawns in it and someone repairing it constantly covered by his team...)

what i want to suggest now is to just detach the spawn point, it's to powerfull in most matches anyway (large maps, low playercounts - tough ppl often won't realize it until death - but raiding a base is quite easy with a good parked apc hidden from direct enemy approach - also already seen being used to exploit on some maps!
that is a drastical change i know, but rebalance the apc back to being what it was befor would counter this and bringing back the opportunity/need to use it as ... well, "Armored Personell Carrier" = troop transport - that thing has 8 seats, use them! (1 driver, 1 "gunner", 6 passenger)

yet it would left the team without mobile spawn points and forcing it to relay on barracks as spawn points! - but read on, this wasn't the only drastical change i have in mind ;-)
Pros:

• would be a deeper strategic play because you need to plan where to build barracks, equip&defend those well!
• no more endless enemy base raidings! (you need to plan raids and if everyone is dead it's over - no somewhere parked or hidden spawnpoint!)

Cons:

• obviously low dynamic spawning - you are sticked to those bases and can't just spawn in the action - not entirely a bad thing tough! (mind about your actions, the risk to die and also no more deathspawns in mined/stickied apc)
• another problem is that some maps haven't much positions with enough room for barracks or even an attached VF (adding spawnpoints to armorys would counter that, but need rebalance!)

Needed Rebalance:

• increasing APC max weight to more reasonable amount! - full plain armor, Std.MG, small grenade launcher and stock engine should be possible, leaving room for small upgrade (eighter a better armor or weapon - but if you want HMG you need to get rid of armor or grenade launcher!)
  
• giving other buildings spawnponts aswell to improve varity of bases
  VF could allow to spawn directly in a vehicle
  Radar can be easyer defended - the 1 entrance deadlock can counterbalance this (happy killfarming defenders...)
  Armory can allow spawnpoints at locations where the other buildings won't fit, the low cost of 75res should be doubled ofc to balance this new feature - its low health already balances the advantages, easy destroyable!
  Barracks should be fortified to still aid a purpose (overall, in relation to other buildings - not to much than atm!), also it could be a requirement to have at least 1 rax on the map to use other classes than engineer ;-)

Regarding CV:
atm the mobility of the cv isn't that usefull, at medium-high pop games it is nearly never used! - at other simliar games you have a fixed commandpost on the map - wich would be enough for empires aswell!
bf2142 has a titan, a hovering fortress at the sky wich is supposed to move (tough it fastly got locked on every server due to collision calculation issues - but the idea sticked out and even immobile it was a great feature to fight onboard or bombard silly enemys that dare to attack the area around it!) around the map and support the team with a spawnpoint, AA&Artillery fire
at empires all what the cv can is driving... while it is only used to delay its death xP
what i would suggest in conjunction to remove the spawnpoint from APC is to add it to CV - making it the only mobile spawn point and giving it a real "Command Vehicle" feeling if your troops can use it to get into action on your pos!

Pros:

• no more "whelp, someone traped my cv with walls" or "urks, someone killed the com on the other side of the map *facepalm*" - 1. your team can killspawn at your location and support you 2. you can just respawn in CV
• more dynamical gameplay, cv is the most importand vehicle but also allows to spawn - weight the opportunity to backdoor an enemy base with the risk you take by it being traped and propably destroyed resulting in your team to loose!
• CV mobility gets a real purpose other than just running away

Cons:

• boomtanking gets legit (easyest method to rush but also put you in the deserved risk wich is missing in rush atm (because only if the other team rushes aswell you going to risk the game with a rush!)
• the only way to win a match is to destroy the CV! (so build your bases, defend them but get hvy's and artillery to destroy the enemy CV!)
  
• very powerfull because the CV is the strongest vehicle and nearly impossible to destroy without massive effort! (but read on, rebalance it is the answer! - should be still the strongest vehicle in the game but not that extraordinary massive unkillable brick it currently is!)
• the team needs to actually care about and defend it - not really a con but many vets will feel that way :-/

Needed Rebalance:

• reducing its incredible health from 1500 (hvy has 225 atm) to more reasonable amounts! (~500-1000*)
  
• reducing incredible high armor plate health from 240 (highest armor health is 120, with boni i remember something like 140-160 as the maximum effective armor in the game available) to more reasonable amounts! (~100-120, the highest single cn projectile dmg is 82, the HIT does 300 and the highest artillery dmg is 375)
• we could bring back asynchronous cv balancing back, BE CV being a resonable, relative fast but weak "David" and the NF CV being a reasonable, relative slow but very strong "Goliath" - the agility/mobility should stay the same!
• maybe the need to add 2 additional seats to ensure spawnability even by several players, if proximity spawn is not possible at source engine(?) (seatblocking players could be an issue, but an auto "kickout" function can prevent this and would be an workaround to achieve the proximity spawn)
• the "F2" seat needs to be locked for the voted com - anyway a thing that needs a fix and just got a workaround on nubs via plugin! (tough a demoted com should release the lock! - as nice side effect that would enforce ppl to vote properbly because a kicked com would open the cv for EVERYONE *muhahahaha* >:D )
• rifleman stickys need to be balanced to be less effective to kill the CV (otherwise it's juat a question of wich team can attach more stickys to the enemy CV)
• "enemy to near" error needs to be reduced (tough it actually is to high anyway!)

Last but not least:
i know some vets will not like it, but please, if so argument why and remember that it is just an idea - nothing has been spoken with the devs or even planned to be changed - so keep calm lovers :*

 

is it only me with my bad english or can someone explain what flasche wants to tell me here?
(other than "your idea sucks" - but it's no surprize that he can't withstand xP)

but lemme correct you, an armory cost 75, i suggested to double its cost in conjunction with my IDEA - resulting in an armory cost 150 = 50 bucks less than a much tougher but also "bigger" (in terms of buildspace required) barracks!
(atm armory have 100hp, barracks has 250hp - as compareance an APC has 150hp+max3plates of armor and cost 80+equipment=min.~160 - you see where that ends up, happy armory spamming, if it gets detected it won't last for long! - but i would just increase its health to 150 and that of a rax to 300 - so that spawnpoints last for a bit longer in return)

edit:
forgot to mention resistances - buildings usually have 0.85 (85%) resistances against everything, meaning their health is much higher of what vehicles can take - so a hp change isn't necessary!

 

He means that armories are more convenient due to their small size. Their health doesn't matter when you can build 3 armories in the place of a barracks. Such an advantage (3 spawn points instead of one) is worth paying for. Spamming armories does result in farming for builders something you are clearly not fond of considering your other posts.

 

if they die twice as quick than a single rax then you need to mind about it and only use it at places where a rax doesn't fit - but you are right that i haven't minded about stacking armorys as much to provide propper balance values!

i would go with staying at 100 HP for armorys then and giving the barracks around 300-400HP - that means you might be able to place 4 armorys instead of 1 rax, but that will cost you 600res instead of 200 for a 300hp spawn point compared to combined 400hp armory spawnpoints - despite the fact theres not much room in an armory to hide in, 1 grenade and you are dead! (remember they still take a ton of dmg due to the 85% reduction!)
all a question of balancing - the thing that matters is what consequences in gameplay it would have to detatch spawnpoints from APCs and attach them to CVs
(thats what this thread is about, not the required rebalancing!)

i started with pointing out that parking a spawnpoint in enemy base is only possible with the risk of loosing the CV and loose the game - no cheap APC spamming anymore!
base raids are still possible but more classical by the need to load your teammates in apc and drive into the base - relieing on the abilitys of your raid party and not just bloody respawn until your APC finally gets destroyed!
(an option would be someone build an armory anywhere nearby... relativ quick to build but also quickly destroyed! - armorys can't shoot back so its defence capabilitys relay on the team!)
the conside is a low dynamic spawning - it would make the game more relaying on basebuilding and defending them aswell commanderdriven combat (wich is a good thing in my eyes, but makes attacking the CV a much harder task! - wich just need to rebalance it to more reasonable stats that that immortal bricks they are atm! - tough very low pop games are much easyer to win then, but again, not that bad thing in my eyes! - the only downside is that commander players doesn't need to stick in their CV, also the team will never loose a spawnpoint until the game ends! - so winning a game is only possible by destroying the CV :-/ - that also requires to balkance rofleman sticky ninjas - otherwise it's just a question of wich team can faster blow up the cv with roflemans! -.-#)