Hey Krenzo:

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by dumpster_fox, Jul 12, 2007.

  1. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    Have a wrist strap for the off hand for improved accuracy, keep the right in handy for combat knives and reloading.

    And I'm talking standard P90s, they have just about no recoil.
     
  2. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    or just getting stopped because enemy would use body armor...
    and P90 has recoil but its made in way that most of it is absorbed by your hand without decrease in accuracy
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  3. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    Also, the P90 is armor piercing. High rate of fire does just about nothing to it's accuracy or power, since it excells at stopping power as well.
     
  4. Gunnery Seargent Hartman

    Gunnery Seargent Hartman Member

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    Stopping power is inferior to .45 ACP, which however isn't armor piercing at all.

    The point is that dualwielding will very very rarely do you any good in real combat (limiting mobility, encubering, can't use both at once properly anyways, you are rarely alone, etc.)


    And literally everything you can do with two P90 you can do with one.
     
  5. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    .45ACP is not armor piercing because its usualy using ball ammo which looses its speed very quickly and is very ineffective against armor
    on other hand usualy used variant of 5.7mm ammo is already AP as its one of things P90 was designed for to provide weapon effective against soldiers wearing body armor for personel that isnt usualy issued with assault rifles(vehicle crews,engineers etc.)
     
  6. rampantandroid

    rampantandroid Member

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    AK47 still will do a poor job at armor piercing compared to high powered rifles of a smaller caliber, which is why the FN Five seveN and P90 (which both use the same ammunition) are considered armor piercing.

    I don't care what the T-95 can do to the older T-80s; the T-80 is inferior to the T-90 in every way - and the range of the T-95 is still inferior. As its its KONTAKT armor - the Challenger II's armor is the best around, and the M1 Abrams has started using it to supplement its primary armor. The best I can liken the comparison of 120mm to 150mm is...the Iowa class battleships vs the Yamato - 16inch vs 18 inch rounds. Despite the larger barrels, the 16 inch was preferred; it had a good balance between power, weight, range and accuracy.


    The P90 has recoil, it is just less than most similar SMGs. The idea of dual wielding any SMG is just laughable. Seriously.
     
  7. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    Why don't you guys just compare weapon performances in actual battlefield conditions? I don't know any numbers, but I would assume the M16 has killed more insurgents/freedom fighters (depending on Point of View) in Iraq and Afghanistan then the AK 47 has killed marines. Maybe? idk.

    Granted, the statistics will have to be adjusted somehow. In raw numbers, the AK has the upper hand because its so cheap and easy to produce. So, I guess, per battle, or something?
     
  8. knighttemplar

    knighttemplar Member

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    FORGET THIS ARGUMENT!

    I say the M16 cowers in front of the power of the
    Raven Arms DM-32 Assault Rifle

    And the M4 is clearly outmatched by the
    Northern Faction M3-G3L .50cal Rifle

    It's true, I read it on a wiki
     
  9. L3TUC3

    L3TUC3 Member

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    Screw that.

    Falcon Manufacturing BZ-S Scout Rifle

    It can cap you noggin from last map!
     
  10. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    I'm surprised you didn't mention the L3 and it's larger caliber variant, L3TUC3. :P
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  11. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    problem is that you cant compare this you had highly trained marines against rugged demoralized insurgents who barely knew how to hold rifle without shooting themselves at least in most cases

    to rampantandroid: since most info on new russian armor is classified its hard to judge how good is it
    while using standard ammunition it may have lower range but using its main gun to fire missile that will probably disable or even destroy most modern tanks but while Abrams and simmilar tanks can kill obsolete tanks(t72) azt4000m its unlikely they would be able to destroy T95

    comparing Iowas and Yamatos main guns is stupid because Japan used low quality ammo which reduced their effectivnes also US ships had better fire control systems allowing them to fire more accurately
     
  12. rampantandroid

    rampantandroid Member

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    Sorry to keep the thread alive, but I have to get a laugh in.

    About the Yamato - I didn't mean this as a trap or anything...but you walked into it; go look up the Yamato. The only chance it ever had to engage enemy ships, albeit destroyers at Leyte Gulf - Admiral Haulsey had fallen for some bait and taken most of the US fleet north away from the Jeep carriers which were offering air support to Marine forces; the bulk of the Japanese fleet attacked between Mindanao and Luzon islands - their only resistance was some destroyers and Jeep carriers with planes fitted for ground attack with no torpedos (despite this, pilots scored hits on the Japanese ships) - the Yamato was chased off by a rogue torpedo and never engaged any ships.

    Anyway, my initial point was people compared the 16in guns to the Yamato's 18 in guns, and many experts believe that the 16 in rounds had better range, accuracy and hitting power simply because of the MUCH higher muzzle velocity.

    As for the T-95, judging by the current KONTACT (5 I think) armor, which is INFERIOR in all aspects, the T-95 will be no better. Its targeting system is lacking, and its angle of attack sucks. Leopord 2, Challenger 2 and Abrams A1/A2 will easily crush it were you somehow able to put the two on a level playing field; even so, the russians will have, what, 10 of these tanks if they ever even enter production? (Its almost like saying "LOLZ OMFG Russian Berkut OWNZ J00" - fuck the fact ONLY TWO EXIST.)
     
  13. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    yeah becuase Yamato and other such super battleships(Iowa,Bismarck) came to age where battleship wasnt king of sea anymore aircraft carriers became better and their aircraft too
    and it was same with Iowas only one of them actualy ever engaged surface vessel(New jersey i think)
    i know that 16s had higher muzzle velocity(820m/s compared to 780m/s of 18) but 18s had higher range by almost 4km and had better armor penetration+bigger payload
    but i have to agree that 16 was probably more accurate

    you are judging tank we know practicaly nothing about i know that russian army is in very bad shape but that doesnt mean T95 will be that bad i was just pointing out that bigger gun has its advantages

    i know berkut was only to test new tech and was never intended for mass production but until F22 came russian fighters would be better if they would update avionics
    but AFAIK we were comparing them 1vs1 not who can field more of them of course NATO would crush anyone who would try to oppose it in conventional warfare
     
  14. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    Wasn't Russia just about top 15 world economy again? Been getting tons of money in the last decade, I think you'd be surprise how Russia's faring.
     
  15. rampantandroid

    rampantandroid Member

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    Russia has a birth rate problem, does it not?

    yamamto...well, lets just say that a South Dakota was testing against some of the Yamato's armor; at 30,000 yards, it made a large amount of damage.

    http://www.gnt.net/~wright/armor1.jpg

    Need I remind you, the SD used a 16"/45 round; the Iowa used (uses) a 16"/50 round.

    Range: Comparable. The difference is something I'd sneeze at. Accurarcy? Iowa wins. Fire control system? Iowa, hands down. Speed? Iowa, hands down. Armor piercing? Inch to inch, assuming a 90 degree hit (and thus avoiding any real physics) the Yamato wins; however I have seen calculations showing that the angle of attack needed for the Yamato to hit at long ranges, the effect of the hit would be greatly lessened by the angle of the Iowa's hull. Larger rounds have uses, armor piercing is FAR from one.

    M16 vs. AK47? M16 wins in close quarters, M4/AR15 does even better. About the OICW: once MAJAR score against it was reliability - one of the initial units they tested used Flechete rounds...these rounds actually caused eye damage for the operators (The Aberdeen proving grounds has a lot of info about the OICW guns) - the XM-8 guns were canceled due to cost as well as reliability issues; A gun designed to fulfill one role will do better than a gun designed to fulfill all rolls (a M79 grenade launcher will do better than an M203, an L96 will do better than a Special Purpose Rifle with a scope, etc.)

    That said, the H&K G11 is one of the most innovative guns from the last 30 years.
     
  16. KILLX

    KILLX Banned

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    GET YOUR OWN FUCKING THREAD!

    /caps
     
  17. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    russia has all sorts of problems because they are quite damned nation mainly thanks to communism(and now Putin...) but most western countries have birth rate problems too

    that hit seems to have come at 90degrees angle and even though 16 has quite flat trajectory it wont be 90 anyway

    i know Iowa would win because it was better in most aspects like radar firecontrol and of course crew training
    Yamato crew was severely undetrained because it was rushed into service especialy damage control teams and when you have 2 such equal battleships it all comes down to skill of crew and US ships had advantage in this
    though higher angle of 18 could cause problems if it would hit deck of Iowa

    imho modern AK10x series are probably better than M16 variants used now specialy 107 and 108 which have lower recoil and thus higher accuracy in full auto mode so they are better in CQB
    AK47 is way better than first version of M16 which was highly unreliable and had only 20 round mag(usualy only 18rounds were used to decrease chance of jamming )

    OICW was also quite heavy for AR
    i wonder why so many US guns after WWII had such problems with reliablity i mean M16,M60(E3 especialy)

    argeed with G11 caseless ammo is great improvement and so was its mechanism that allowed to fire burst with recoil after last round and not during actual burst
     
  18. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    You know what, this as expanded into every area of tactical weapon debate, except of course airplanes, and then its full monty.

    Lets settle this. I'll talk to bush, and we'll just start another world war. Western Hemisphere VS. Eastern. We'll take all you bisches down. Everyone grab your favorite guns, and start shootin. reports in weekly here, (no bitching bout how you can't find a compooter, use your phone jackass!), last one standing wins.

    Ready........... and GO!
     
  19. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    I use my time travel machine to prevent the war and kill Bush, then teleport Cpatton away to my supersecret underground lab where i erase his mind and make him my spy.
     
  20. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    ........

    *googles bush*

    looks like he's still alive! Which means you haven't done it yet! Thanks for coming back and telling me your plan genius! *pulls out a Semi-Auto AR15 and caps Solokiller in the ass on the way out of the thread*

    Welcome to the future, bitch! *H34D5H0T*
     

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