Group Revive ability proposed nerf

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Chahk, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    Currently Engineer Squad Leader's "Group Revive" ability works on squad members who suicide ("kill" in console). I propose that this is changed to work just like the regular Revive engie ability, where suicided players are not revived.

    I know there is a tactic where a sneaky Squad Leader gets behind the enemy lines, then has his entire squad suicide and get revived right next to him. Combined with the ability to swap squads, this can easily "beam" the entire team (squad points permitting of course) over to his location in no time. The other team will not stand a chance to counter since Group Rev completely bypasses the respawn timer, whereas it would take the enemy soldiers at least 10 seconds to get back using the suicide-respawn.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Deiform

    Deiform Member

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    Omg! It's so simple. Why didn't I think of making people swap squads to beam them across the map earlier.

    Beaming is better than HEMG APCs anyday.

    But yes, I had noticed engie group respawn was a bit op. Didn't really want it nerfed though. :(
     
  3. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    But what happens if you get stuck / killed by other things than enemy fire? Does that also count as the ''kill'' command?
     
  4. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    i tend to agree with chahk. After all, it's really not that hard to die, so it's hardly a huge nerf... just dive into the nearest tank treads and he's ready to squad rev you, but now it doesn't feel so cheap.
     
  5. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    All that counts as the kill command is the kill command. :P
     
  6. Beerdude26

    Beerdude26 OnThink(){ IsDownYet(); }

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    TBH I don't agree with this nerf. You still spend precious rank points on a mass revive and behind enemy lines there's a 50/50 chance that your entire squad will get annihilated in enemy territory. Not to mention the effort your Squad Leader had to do to get behind enemy lines in the first place :|
     
  7. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    First off, even with such nerf you'd still be able to accomplish this: just have your squad mates kamikaze dive under enemy tanks. All I'd like removed is the ability to ~kill and be insta-revved half-way across the map.

    Second, I agree that the effort of the SL that was able to sneak behind the enemy lines should be rewarded (him being an Engie after all). However I feel that this tactic is a borderline exploit. I doubt Krenzo designed Mass Rev to be used as a portal for the entire team. The squad hopping is a topic for another discussion though.
     
  8. knighttemplar

    knighttemplar Member

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    So either the Kill command doesn't work, or people jump off tall buildings or through grenades at their feet. That's what I've been getting my squad to do because I had no idea the kill command worked.
     
  9. theotherjms

    theotherjms Developer

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    I agree that the skill is powerful, but not overpowered.
    To use this tactic you have to:

    -have five squad points

    -have five people who understand this tactic. I once had a 5 minute-discussion with somebody who didn't. I got behind the enemy lines on Escort and he refused to make me squad leader. We could have ended the game within one minute but he didn't know what I meant/was to stupid/whatever. And that was just one person, not four.

    -these people have to have the console on (I didn't have it for a long time because of problems with my German keyboard layout. I have it enabled by launch option now) I know of other people who can't just type "kill" because they have the console disabled.

    -the squad leader has to actually get behind the enemy lines

    -when they are behind enemy lines they actually have to accomplish something worth the trouble. For it being overpowered, I mean.

    A squad that can handle all this deserves the advantage, in my opinion.
     
  10. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    Not understanding gameplay is not a valid point. By that logic, you can add things like "-understand English", "-read what others type in chat" and "-know how to get ammos" to your list. We are discussing scenario where players are aware of Squad Leader's abilities and how to use them. So having squad points and an Engie SL behind the enemy lines are the only valid points in your argument.

    Granted the latter can be quite difficult to achieve, but not as impossible as you are making it seem. I've seen this "tactic" pulled off on at least three separate occasions, all on different servers. So people ARE aware of this and DO use it. I'm not completely against it, I just want to give the team on the receiving end a chance to counter. Right now they will be at least 10 seconds behind the attacking squad due to respawn counter. Not allowing Mass Rev for suicided players will even out the field some.
     
  11. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    If people can't -kill, they will just get themselves killed some other way.
     
  12. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    which is why i don't see the issue with this 'nerf,' it's so minor. The only people who wouldn't be able to instantly blow themselves up are scouts and engies, and i think scouts could if they have stickies active and decide to sit on one.
     
  13. MomoZMonster

    MomoZMonster Member

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    Makes sense, since kill in console dosn't let you be normally revived right? Makes sense that it wouldn't let you be mass rev'ed.
     
  14. thaile

    thaile Member

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    The only Nerf to the engineer revive that will do this is if the squadmembers don't revive where the engineer is.

    1. Not allowing kill commands. (People who use this would just find another way to die.

    2. Adding timer, reduce health? (Given that the engineer got behind the enemy lines mean they don't know he's there. So he has all the times he needs to revive his squad and heal them before they attack.
     
  15. Lazydog

    Lazydog Member

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    i actually rather not see it nerfed.

    mass revive behind enemy line tactic is one of the most squad-oriented moves.

    to pull it off the squad must have been working together to get the 5 points and the squad must be listening to their squad leader to suicide on command.

    the squad leader must be given kudos to sneak behind enemy lines.

    all in all it encourages teamwork that shows suburb results when the squad works together.
     
  16. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    I'd rather see it so that when you join a squad when you're dead, you don't get counted into a mass revive until you've spawned atleast once.
     
  17. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    I always thought Empires was about strategy, now you're telling me you want to remove things that improve strategy?


    And not allow people who havent spawned to get revived by mass revive?
    Then how will new people get into a map if a barracks is destroyed? Thus squad points doesn't generate by the second.
     
  18. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    Tbh allowing people that just joined a squad to respawn with mass revive just makes games take longer to complete, instead of having more tactics. (more tactics would be sneaking into the enemy base, and taking out their CV)
     
  19. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    That would be even worse. Imagine a kamikaze grenadier driving at full speed towards the enemy base, getting killed at their barracks, and then getting mass-revived 10 minutes later and taking down enemy barracks with nobody there to stop him.

    That would be fine actually. They would need to either blow themselves up with grenades (takes time), or find an enemy to throw themselves at (again, takes time). In the meantime their squadmates need to stay dead, thus effectively taking their entire squad out of the game for the period while they are preparing to be mass-revved. Even in a 20 Vs. 20 game a loss of 5 people for a few minutes might end up in a disaster for their team. Right now all it takes is the time to type "~kill".

    I wouldn't want SL's ability to get nerfed too much, just enough to make the "teleport" trick less effective.
     
  20. thaile

    thaile Member

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    Well actually if they just join a game without a spawn point or tickets, they can't get mass revive in the first place. The game sees them as not having a class yet and won't let them spawn.

    What he talking about though is like on district was squads end up with a huge amount of squad points. Near the end when team runs out of tickets, it's common to see and engineer squadleader hang back and have all the dead people join his squad to revive. Which all it does is prolong the game.
    Instead squads that start together got to stick together.
     

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