Currently, the grenadier will destroy every other class, even riflemen at equal skill level. Why? Because of the Pistol 1. Not the mortar, even though yes it will kill everything standing still, but the Pistol 1 is what makes the Gren ridiculous. Here's my suggestion, give the grenadier a pistol is inferior to the current Pistol 1. Not just some kind of ammo nerf. Why? Because grenadiers are only good if they're supported any who, so you have to assume they have an ample supply of ammo as it is.
What? I almost never engage infantry as a gren. If I do, its with my trusty PISTOL 2. They still have another option for a powerful pistol, why remove the standard one? Also, if everyone already has the option of the standard pistol, plus a Rifle or an SMG or something more useful than a pistol, whats the point? If you cant kill Grens with rifles and SMGs you should not be playing Empires. I just don't see this happening when I play Empires.
The problem with your whole argument starts with the premise. What do you mean by equal skill level? The grenadier has a steeper and wider learning curve (for mortars). You had to play a certain amount of time before the grenadier is arguably better than the rifleman. Even then, this depends on the situation and tasks (e.g. rifleman would always rape infantry compared to a grenadier in a wide-open area). The mere fact that you are suggesting the pistol1 makes the grenadier ridiculous tells me that going any further is pointless.
A nerf to the gren is probably needed. When im BE i get pistol 2, NF pistol 1. Let's decide on how to nerf, whether ammo, or damage, or other, before the amount is decided. If he gets a nerf at all.
Grenadier does not need a nerf. Empires has had the problem of lack of Grens forever. And only in recent patches has it received buffs to survivability. Besides Gren just got a slight armor nerf to balance better. It's very balanced atm. L2p Rifleman (arguably the easiest class in the game). Or better yet, help your team out more mid/late game by "drumroll" playing a gren.
Pistol 1 is op, and I'll try and get round to fixing that, but Grenadiers get just as much hassle from other people using Pistol 1 as they do from the Grens. As Krazer said, there's always been a dire shortage of Grenadiers, and now we're finally seeing more. The main reason people complain about OP grens is because they're not used to Grens tearing shit up, whereas they ARE used to seeing that from riflemen. The only underpowered class at the moment is engineer, because smg1 just isn't effective enough. NFAR has suffered a little too much too. As it is, I personally still take Pistol 2 or the Shotty over Pistol 1 every time, but that's because unlike everybody else who is too obsessed with Pistol 1, I've actually learnt how to use them better than pistol 1 in some situations. They're better in close quarters than Pistol 1, and with the mortar and RPG, I don't really need help in long range combat with the Gren, just in close quarters.
problem only is that most maps arnt very close quater. also finally do something about scunts, they are more then annoying. as minimum make hide and the scoped rifle not work together, but even better remove it once and for all - alternatively, but that wont happen, make sure you dont have to run across maps that have no cover at all (duststorm comes to mind, but every map suffers from it actually)
When I refer to "equal skill level" it means something very damned specific. As in, the person has mastered the class. They know the weaknesses, every weapon in their disposable, optimal skill slot usage, etc. For grenadiers it'd be an understanding of how to aim the mortar, and being able to do it. Being able to peg with the rocket launcher, and when to switch to a a pistol instead of the mortar. Simple things like that. Rifleman on the other hand would be something along the lines of knowing when not to stand still, knowing when to crouch to shoot instead of standing up, knowing when to throw a grenade instead of shooting, and having damned good aim really. That's what I mean by "equal skill level." Really? When the hell do you play? Pistol 2, or the Shotty are about the same; their power is in the ability to abuse close quarters, which is fair to be honest. Though, they're completely useless at anything past that so on open maps you have to engage with a the mortar or the RPG if you're some crazy bastard. Why remove the standard one? Because it fixes that one problem I just listed above, if you're fast enough you can pistol snipe someone across the fucking map. Shit, they get any closer and they're just dead. Also, you never engage infantry? The fuck are you doing? I'm going to say this right now. am arguably one of the best grenadiers in the game (plenty of ego intended). There. That's why I'm posting this, it's not some rage post I decide to do because I got a mortar shoved up my ass while I was standing still. You're right about the lack of grenadiers though, but I'm looking at it from a "everyone knows what they're doing" balance perspective. Everyone I know who played Empires, and not just for 5 minutes, tells me that the grenadier is unbalanced because it's role is to flush out infantry, and kill tanks but it's so good at both jobs... why play rifleman? Right, also BUFFING A CLASS TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO PLAY IS INHERENTLY BAD FROM A GAME DESIGN PERSPECTIVE. WHOEVER THOUGHT IT UP SHOULD BE CRUCIFIED AND KILLED. For the most part Trickster, but once you end up trying to fight a strafing bastard of a rifleman or an engineer, or in one case even a scout you simply cannot hit them with a mortar if they're aware that you're aiming towards them. Grenadier's already versatile enough.
I do not appear to have such an issue. However, I fail at rifles but am good with the mortar. And I get way more infantry than tanks, mortar being so damn accurate and powerful. But pistol 1 could get slightly more recoil and/or accuracy.
how to put it without insulting you? :confused: will report back when words like retard, dumbass and thelike disapeard out of my brain ...
lol i'm a crazy bastard then, when the mortar sucked you had to use the rpg creatively. Gren's fine, Trickster is gonna fix the issues with the pistols as he said, so, things are lookin good
Whilst it doesn't need zoom, I sometimes struggle to guide it when I can't see the actual RPG because of the smoke behind it.
To me the NFAR is decent in both close and long range combat. The NFHR on the other hand, has been nerfed dramatically; with the result that if I want to take out infantry at range with NF I take either the NFAR or just go scout with the scoutrifle; the NFHR is horrible at range with the massive kickback and lower accuracy then previous versions. I used to go rifleman with either the carbine or the NFHR in early game in previous versions. However, now that the NFHR has been nerfed so much I find my self going scout with a scoutrifle early in the game as NF almost every time; the entire rifle has been nerfed too much in order to be useful when compared with the SR. Please, either decrease the massive kickback it currently has or increase base accuracy.
???? Are you high? The NFHR has 100% accuracy. It has recoil, but the base spread is literally 0. If you can't hit with a laser then I can't help you. I physically couldn't make it more accurate.
