Been talking with dubee/grapehead about the grenadier class and we both agree that it could do with some tweaking. What we came up with was that the RPG should do more damage against tanks than the mortar and that the mortar should take a couple of seconds from crouch/proning and being able to fire. We believe this will make the RPG anti vehicle weapon of choice as it should be while dicouraging the use of the mortar as some sort of assault weapon instead of an artillery piece. To compensate for the decrease in power the mortar will receive against vehicles, perhaps an increase in damage against buildings too. ... Yay or nay?
oh god yes. I say instead of making the RPG more powerful, make the rockets travel faster or guide/lock on better. You can't curve one of those for shit. But yeah, I agree, RPG is and always has been not as good as mortar overall. (Last speed increase def. helped a bunch, but it's still not an even balance)
ps. This has the benefit of not having to add in any new animations or make any graphical alterations
yay indeed rite now.. and i know you guys have seen this I(and many others) hop around corners and get kills with mowtars with ease and by the time they realize what happened the gren is gone if the mowtar did more damage to buildings but took longer to fire it would be a long range/arty type weapon.. which it should be.. it use to be a front line weapon with the old models quick reload.. now that it is slower it needs more of a punch.. today on canyon 4 or 5 grens could not take down a foward barracks which ended up costing us the game as for the rockets.. look at my sig :D i kno that usally you can get lucky and find a half dead apc for easy kills but that was not the case.. it was the longest guided rocket kill i have ever got(gotta love melee for the screenshot) rockets for killing tanks mowtar for killing buildings(and somtimes inf ) pistola for inf
God no, PLEASE do not increase the damage of the RPG as it is, its extremely easy to take down paper tanks early in the game as it stands. RPG isn't all that hard to hit with if you have some practise and lead your target like you have to with the mowtar, but I definitely agree it could use some more maneuverability. An increase in speed and a slight increase in guidance would be great. This is yet another reason for infantry researches. The RPG is perfectly balanced (except for its speed) against paper tanks, and on maps such as Glycen City and Urban Chaos where the only armor available is paper, but is completely useless once the enemy has any kind of armor researched. If there was a researchable to increase RPG damage, armor piercing, ect. then the problems of it being One-Hit-Über-Kills in the early game, and a pea shooter mid-late game are solved.
if its made so that you need to be crouching for a little while before mortaring (hopefully not a full couple of seconds as thats quite a while really) then there still could be a bit of a problem with moving - if you can crawl forward and fire immediately then you can still courner (tho not as well as jumping as its slowe i suppose) but if you have to be still then you wont be able to fire if someone's shooting at you and hitting every now and then.
WTF is wrong with that? It prevents the game from beeing ended too early, in my opinion. Or did you enjoy the 2 minutes APC-rush games?
At this very moment I don't see any need for grenadiers anymore. They just turned into nerfed riflemen with extra range to their boom.
I only use the rpg against tanks if they're less than 30 meters away from me. I just can't hit them if they're further away than that. And seeing how i get killed by stickies a lot more than by enemy rpg's, it seems to me that other people can't hit a tank with an rpg as well. I mean i see the missile coming, and i move 50 inches. That's it. Danger gone. Enemy dead. I usually kill off enemy tanks with the mortar, because half of the time they don't see it coming untill it's too late. Increasing the damage of the rpg would not convince me to use it against tanks more. From a distance i would still not hit them, and if he's close by i would've used both rpg and mortar anyway. To be honest the effectiveness of grenadiers against tanks is (in general) fine the way it is. I can kill tanks rather easily, unless i'm against an heavy. But one grenadier shouldn't be able to destroy a heavy worth a 1000 res on it's own. Anything less expensive than an heavy is in serious danger IF i'm able to choose where to attack him (cover is very important). However i suppose, from reading my own post here, that the mortar is used a lot more than the rpg. The mortar is good against buildings, people and tanks, while for an rpg noob like me the rpg is only good against tanks that are close enough to run you over. Making the rpg a little stronger against tanks, and the mortar do a little less damage (against tanks), could actually not be that bad. But increasing the damage wouldn't do much i think. Increasing missile speed might though. Actually so far i haven't seen any problems with the sticky bombs. In large commander maps they're mainly usefull against abandoned vehicles, which i think is good because now the rifleman can destroy a vehicle after killing the driver who was repairing it. In maps like escort the sticky bombs actually improve gameplay pretty much. Tanks are very strong, but if the tankdriver makes one mistake, he's in a lot of danger now. That said, this is only what i experienced in like ... 8 hours or playing or so. But so far i like the addition of sticky bombs.
The way I see it, the suggestion is not to buff RPG damage, but rather lower Mortar damge vs vehicles and buff it vs buildings. If this is the case, I would like to see another 2 to the standard RPG clip...because I often dont roll with ammo upgrade right off the bat, and...you just need more tbh. I don't have a problem with guiding, I did a couple major long distance ones the other day and it seems a bit touch-and-go but it really is a skill. [coincidentally, if you made a upgrade guiding skill - so that it guides more like the rockets from HL2 which are insanely guidable I would probably get that 9 times out of 10] I do have minor issues with the mortar having to use a whole <standard@full ammo> clip to take down an unrepaired ref...and I feel that it's had it's damage reduced along the way. Buffing damage (a little) and adding an increased deploy time may help...but unfortunately you're not going to know until you test it whether it's better or not.
Any skilled APC/Tank driver can fend of incoming sticky riflemen especially with chaingun. A not so good tank driver will rush into masses of rifleman blindly. A grenadier at least has "the chance" to hit an enemy tank over a distance. Let alone the game winning mines grenadier got or the anti infantry mortar that also is the only bet to wasting buildings over some distance. A grenadier shouldn't be a lone guy wasting entire armadas of middle to heavy tanks (okay if they are dumb enough to drive into minefields they deserve it) Rifleman will never be able to do that safe for very close quarter maps. And if he is able to pull it off there it is due to the team having no cameras or bad infantry coverage (or non working cameras) Sticky bombs are a hillarious enrichment of the current gameplay that makes the rifleman a main infantry class. This change is NEEDED due to engineer smgs nerfs. Both teams should and now have riflemen/scouts in their ranks. Regarding the use of guided RPG I can say that there are a few tricks and hints but... not here
If players didnt get a free class related skill from the start of the game, then forward barracks would be the invincible fort that they currently are. thats my opinion anyway for god sake someone shoot sandbag he's gone nuts what about this: the longer you wait after crouching the less stamina damage you get from firing. if you fire imidiately, then you get like 3/4 stamina loss. having no stamina should make reloading slower. just an idea chucking it out there
To my experience, it makes every vehicle unable to turn a corner, basically making vehicles defensive when they are much needed in the offensive track. Rifleman being able to stand up against vehicles is something I approve of, but currently they can kill anything with three plates and full hull in a single grenade, even a mortar or RPG can't do that ammount of damage. It should be able to damage vehicles, not completely annihilate anything that isn't a heavy. Tanks now have been made a defensive weapon exclusively, as when rushing now do you not only have to face up with level 3 turrets, trapping engineers and their personal turrets, and expert grenadiers, now you also have to put up with riflemen doing as much damage as a damn nuke.
Against a BE heavy I needed four stickies on one side (at least I think they were all on one side, one may not have been) to kill it. Just info.
mortars are fun for close range... maybe not realistic. it wouldn't be the same being a grenadier if you couldn't blow up infantry.
I say you just throw a couple of these ideas together and see how they work. That's much better then just speculation.
I'm mostly concerned about the effectiveness of the mortar against infantry and especially against anti infantry classes. Being able to run (or worse, jump) out, crouch, effectively fire a shell from any range that doesn't even have to hit you and run back into cover before the other person can take aim and fire off enough bullets, accurately enough to defend themselves just doesn't seem all that fair. Heck, it's quicker to snapshoot (DoD term) with the mortar than it is to even raise a rifleman's sights. As for the mortar against tanks, I've seen a single mortar shell take down two strips of armour and put the hull into the red and I've noticed that it's much easier to hit a vehicle at a distance with the mortar than it is with the RPG so I don't see how swapping RPG and Mortar damage against vehicles is going to make the RPG overpowered. I'm personally not too bothered about upping the mortar damage against buildings. I think that should be the job of real artillery but it does at least make a little sense to give something back to the mortar if it's getting a delay and less damaage against vehicles.
