Gaming PC - any advice ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by JustGoFly, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I would say that you should just buy an SSD separately, but I can't say I know if it'll actually be possible to add it to your system afterwards. Dell have a habit of clusterfucking their PCs with plastic.
     
  2. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Found this:
    Newegg has the Mushkin Enhanced MKNSSDAT240GB 240GB mSATA Internal SATA III MLC Solid State Drive (SSD) for a low $161.49 Free Shipping after Coupon Code: "EMCYTZT3329" (Exp Soon). Tax in CA, NJ, TN. This is 23% less than elsewhere.

    This has good information on installing the SSD and adding a Y adapter to provide power to the SSD while leaving the existing 1 Terabyte drive installed.

    If you object to above Mushkin drive, please speak up - I do not profess to know more than just a google search provides.

    JustGoFly
     
  3. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Installing an SSD onto any PC you built yourself is easy. I'm just saying, much like modern cars, pre-built PCs can be a bitch to work with. Everything is clusterfucked with plastic and can be really difficult to get at. I remember that when we took apart Slade's old PC (Pentium 4 Dell) it was a nightmare. We had to tear half the PC apart just to change a hard drive or something, simply because of the amount of plastic bolted on stuff for very little reason. It's possible that, being enthusiast computers, Alienwares are better, but I don't really have any idea what they're like inside.
     
  4. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    That is an mSATA SSD and the X51 does not support the MSATA standard.

    mSATA SSDs perform the same as 2.5" SSDs, but they are smaller and use a different connector to interface with the machine.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You need a 2.5" SSD. 250GB is a good size. Between $150 and $200 is a decent price range for those drives.

    Right now, Newegg has the Crucial m4 for $158. That's a reliable drive and a respectable price.

    There's two things going for the X51 that make it a great deal in my eyes.

    First off, it's LGA1055, so it runs Intel's consumer Ivy Bridge CPUs. The Aurora runs Intel's workstation Sandy Bridge-E CPUs. Gamers don't need the stuff that a workstation provides. Dell just does that because Sandy Bridge-E has expensive six core CPUs (but that base machine is a 4-core) and ignorant consumers think they need more cores.

    Secondly, the X51 has a shitty GPU. The 640 is barely adequate for 1080p gaming (although it could probably squeak by at 720p). This seems shitty, but it's a blessing that you don't have to pay Dell's make-up for them to put a GPU in the machine. That leads me to the bad news...

    So that link didn't work because the one X51 that I wanted you to get was already taken by the time you saw it. There's a good reason that I only thought one of them was acceptable.

    The X51 is a quirky machine. Its PSU is actually external (like a laptop). Dell reuses the gigantic 240W and 330W external PSUs from their highest end gaming laptops.

    The X51 four revisions in the wild. Each one offers two GPU choices, a "high" one and a "low" one. The better GPU will get you an X51 with the 330W PSU and the cheaper GPU will net you a 240W PSU.
    • The first X51s had 2011's Sandy Bridge (not Sandy Bridge-E) CPUs and either a GTX 555 or GTX 545 (for "high" or "low").
    • The second X51s had 2012's Ivy Bridge CPUs with the previous GPU choices.
    • The third X51s have Ivy Bridge CPUs with either a GTX 660 or GTX 640 (again, "high" or "low").
    • The current X51s have Ivy Bridge CPUs with either a GTX 660 or a GTX 645.

    Ideally, we want a "high" GPU, but we want an old shitty one because we're going to upgrade it. It would be nice to have an Ivy Bridge CPU, but that's not essential.

    I found a $1050 ($682.50 after 30%) X51 with wastefully fast Ivy Bridge CPU and a "high" GTX 555. So it was the perfect storm of an excellent, modern CPU with a cheap old GPU, but it was the "high" GPU so it came with the 330W PSU.

    We want the 330W PSU because it lets us use 150W TDP GPUs while the 240W PSU is only rated for 80W TDP GPUs. Typically, better GPUs are going to have higher TDPs because they use more power and therefore get hotter.

    If you ordered one of the remaining X51s with a 240W PSU, you have three choices.
    • Buy a Dell 330W PSU for around ~$100. Then get a 7850, 660 or 660 Ti depending on deals.
    • Keep the 240W and upgrade to a 7770, which is mediocre, but the best 80W GPU out there and definitely better than a 640. If you really want to push your luck, you could try a 7790, which is 85W, but much better than a 7770.
    • Wait. The 640 is likely better than your laptop's GPU. Maybe you'll find a cheap 330W PSU in the next few months and you'll be able to upgrade to even better next-gen 150W GPUs by then.
    Lol, you might want to keep an eye out for 7770 deals. That's the best GPU you can put in an X51 with that 240W PSU.

    EDIT Fun fact, the X51 is widely believed to be a prototype for Valve's Steambox. Valve is aiming to connect a gaming PC to your 1080p HDTV and play Steam games. They know that the machine has to be small and relatively cheap. When it debuted, the GTX 555 seemed like a horrible choice even for 1080p gaming. But that was cool because Valve knew that future 150W GPUs would be better. And surprise surprise, the 660 rapes modern games at 1080p. I can't wait to see what next year's 150W GPUs look like.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  5. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    ImSpatacus, your wealth of knowledge is very useful to me and many others. Thank you for sharing !

    Now I'm hot on AlienWare.
    Found this link -
    Dell Alienware x51 Gaming Desktop, Intel Core i5-2320 Quad-Core 3.0GHz, 6GB DDR3, 1TB SATA, HDMI, USB 3.0, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 555, Waves MaxxAudio, W7HP

    Issues here are I5 vs I7, but better video card. Good enough ?
    CPU is slower - but not as important, as you've made clear. I may do some video ripping but quad core 3.0 should be fine.
    More to look at - some time left in these deals.

    JustGoFly
     
  6. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Excellent find! Those 330W X51s are highly coveted.

    Now you're in an incredible position. You have a machine with a functional and moderately adequate GPU. You can probably survive for at least a few weeks with it.

    In the mean time, I would keep tabs on deals sites for deals on a 660 Ti. That's the best GPU you can put in a 330W X51.

    EDIT There's a deal on a 660 right now. It's one notch under a 660 Ti, but it may be worth considering. For 1080p gaming, both are excellent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  7. WalMartGreeter

    WalMartGreeter Member

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    The mSATA SDDs that I have researched earlier in the year had subpar speeds compared to a standard 2.5 SDD. The mSATA SDDs are usually for Intel SRT, which couples with a HDD for performance caching. Rather just go for a decent size SSD with current prices.

    For my tower, I went for the Samsung 256GB SSD.
     
  8. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    That's completely false. mSATA SSDs are just as capable as 2.5" SSDs. The only difference is form factor. There is no inherent limitation to the mSATA form factor that is not present in standard SATA.

    That said, there is a price premium to mSATA drives and the X51 does not support them. 2.5" SSDs would be the better choice.
     
  9. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    OK a bit confused on the choices:

    System 1: New $644
    Alienware X51
    Processor: Intel Core i7-3770 Processor (3.4GHz (8MB Cache) with Hyper-Threading and Turbo Boost Technology 2.0)
    Windows 8
    Dell Outlet Alienware X51 Desktop
    1TB 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
    6 GB DDR3 Memory (1X2G/1X4G), 1333MHz
    8X DVD +/- RW Drive
    1GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GeForce GT 640


    System 2: Refurb $679
    Dell Alienware x51 Gaming Desktop,
    Intel Core i5-2320 Quad-Core 3.0GHz,
    6GB DDR3,
    1TB SATA,
    HDMI, USB 3.0,
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 555,
    Waves MaxxAudio, W7HP

    Only real advantage of system #2 is the video card and higher wattage power supply. But it needs the higher wattage power supply since it is not as efficient as the i7-3770

    i7 is values at $131 more than the i5
    http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-2320
    and 24% faster on single threaded tasks (Gaming). 43% better in multithreaded. 80% better in graphics and games - not sure how unless it has onboard FPU's that the video drivers can use.
    Comparison link

    Soooo - if I intend on upgrading the video card - System 1 seems like the right choice. But if I intend to live with the lower performance system as is - then System 2 seems to be a better gaming system. Now it comes down to deciding if I intend to upgrade. I am leaning towards the i7 over the i5. The review from the above link has swayed my opinion towards the i7 and going with the video upgrade for a better overall system.

    Comments ?
     
  10. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    The CPU isn't a significant contributor to load power consumption, so your second comment isn't true. Yes, the 3770 has a 77W TDP while that Sandy Bridge CPU has a 95W TDP, but CPUs rarely have to utilize their full TDP for very long. It would be hard to notice a difference unless you're encoding video or doing something else that's CPU intensive (i.e. gaming not included).

    The GPU on the other hand will redline at its TDP just about every time you play a game. So you're getting the better PSU for the GPU, not really the CPU.

    You kinda got it the wrong way. You're going to want to upgrade the GPU either way. Both the 555 and 640 aren't good enough for serious 1080p gaming (although the 555 is passable). And you are going to need the larger PSU to upgrade the GPU. So the right system to get for a GPU upgrade would be the second one.

    But if you're comfortable paying $100 for the 330W PSU, you could get the first system and you would be able to upgrade to a 150W GPU. Just keep in mind that there's a reason the second system costs slightly more than the first one despite featuring an older CPU.

    So if we add $100 to the cost of the first system, then you're looking at about $70 for that CPU upgrade and "new" status. It's your decision.
     
  11. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    If you get either of those systems, you'd still have to drop cash on an Nivida gpu that's x60 - x90 so imo get the one running an i7 then just sell the card that came with it. Anything lower than x60 means it isn't meant for gaming.
     
  12. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    We're aware that he should replace the GPU either way. That's the beauty of this sytem. It comes with a shitty GPU, but it's made to run with a not-shitty GPU.
     
  13. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    The difference between 660 and 660 ti is about 400 spu's. At 31% increase to texel rate, its a big difference.

    GeForce GTX 660 Ti -- 102480 Mtexels/sec
    GeForce GTX 660 ---- 78400 Mtexels/sec

    I have been mulling over getting iether a 660 or 660 ti since the last bit O' upgrading I did. I did all of this so I can get a new vcard since this one is fucked. It has... heating issues. Once it warms up it's video transmission part fucking starts loosing signal strength and the monitor constantly looses signal lock. If I switch it over to analog there is no problem, it just looks like shit.(its not the monitors fault)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  14. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    What does the Ti actually mean? I haven't seen it before until the latest GPUs. I know that Nvidia always had GS, GT, GTS and GTX, but I have no idea what the Ti means.
     
  15. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    First Link
     
  16. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    It's just a suffix that implies a performance increase over a product with the absence of a ti. It probably stands for titanium, but it doesn't matter.
     
  17. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    fucking click the link and learn.
     
  18. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    This may be a dumb question but what's the difference between the same cards manufactured by different companies? For example, a 660 made by asus vs one made by gigabyte or evga.
     
  19. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    What does IT stand for.



    Only in the cooling system and a potential overclock.
     
  20. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

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    and sometimes the PCB, RAM Manufacturer, quality of condensators, different styles of "monitor connectors", warranty, ....
     

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