Feedback on 2.8

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by FN198, Jun 8, 2016.

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Whats your response to this feedback?

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  1. FN198

    FN198 Member

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    each class has significant utility

    Throughout my time with this game, from 2008 to 2016 I have done my best to keep track of the relationships between each class to each other and to each situation in empiresmod. Early on the rifleman was the strongest anti-infantry class in both direct and indirect engagement. Its grenades had 5-6 second fuses and could be lobbed at angles down corridors in a steady stream from an ammo crate. With the commander’s ability to mark multiple targets and the deadly force of the BEHR, the 2.0 rifleman could take out an entire squad with a single drum in 2500-3500ms. No other class could really do this. The engineer, scout and grenadier had different yet distinct roles. 2.0 engineer built stuff and had the SMG to keep other engineers and scouts away. 2.0 scout was very much like the engineer but while they could not build, they could serve enemy buildings death sentences that halved their life by 50% and damaged them gradually until they died if left un-repaired. 2.0 grenadiers had a very specific role: kill vehicles and buildings. If they tried to fight a rifleman and could not get a 130hp first hit it was over.

    After a couple of years and the orange box, the game’s weapons all felt like peashooters. It seemed like you almost had to empty half your whole magazine on someone before they croaked. Melee upgrade, mines and direct mortar hits were the only thing that seemed to kill. The age of the combat gren had dawn. Speed, Health, Melee, Defusal and an engi squad lead to squad heal away all of the tiny needles thrown at you were all you needed to dominate any foe. This would continue until recently.

    Now it almost seems that we’ve come full circle. The rifleman can dish out very similar damage to what it could in 2.0 but without the same kind of target alternation is not as strong. The engineer and scout now have the ability to deal significant 1v1 damage but often lose vs the rifleman. The grenadier is no longer as powerful due to the buff of the rifleman. Each class has significant utility in the game. Rifleman handle enemy infantry easily but can’t wipe out entire squads very quickly. Grenadiers still hurt vehicles but are no longer the generally preferred anti infantry class. Scouts are no longer as strong as they were vs buildings but are stronger vs infantry. All in all, the classes seem very well balanced and the game is at one of its least frustrating points.


    the rifleman’s machine gun is finally a viable weapon

    Making the weapon more accurate while crouching makes it much more viable. It creates a new way of playing the rifleman that is as rewarding as the other two weapon styles while using existing art resources. In typical empiresmod fashion, a defensive position can be made with two walls and a machine gunner. Crouching atop one wall and e building the one in front, a rifleman can fire from good cover.

    new pistol options add depth to both the scout and engineer

    Choice between equally viable options is always a good thing. This is why giving the option to switch pistols to all classes makes playing the game feel more fun. No longer does classing as an engineer have to feel like putting on a starbucks uniform. However silly it sounds, getting to choose your sidearm makes you feel like a badass (even when your title is base bitch). I enjoy being able to carry a shotgun pistol while building turrets and reviving teammates on the front line.

    weaker walls make coordinated assaults simpler

    Being able to destroy walls with afv’s and light tank fire instead of having to get out and calculate it away is a major game changer. It speeds up gameplay and helps player organization by letting assaulting forces scale actions to achieve game objectives such as breaking walls with mass afvs or breaking infantry hard points with high explosive shells. This makes attacking just that much more easy to the point where it makes the game more exciting without being too chaotic.

    BE heavies are more balanced with NF heavies than ever before

    The increased effectiveness of guided ML gives NF a weapon to close the skill and effectiveness gap between NF heavies and BE heavies. Originally and all throughout the history of the game. The cannon vs ML balance has been one of the most troubling problems to gameplay. Now I want to say that we’ve reached the most balanced point ever. Cannons, while still very effective have met their match in the stronger than ever before guided MLs. Hopefully the next scripts changes do not undo this achievement.

    extending the range of level one ml turrets enhances gameplay

    The decision to extend the range of level one ml turrets has been by and far a success in my view. It gives a losing team the chance to effectively fortify their main base while they regroup to retake critical strategic points in the map. The improved level ones give teams on the ropes a chance to get back in the fight. They also have a much better area denial effect on enemy vehicles that encourage more mechanized infantry tactics.

    lack of accessible informational resources hurts gameplay

    One of the things I always have to do after new scripts come out is to figure out what’s worth researching and whats not worth researching. What’s worth building and whats not worth building. I think that in-game recommendations along with an in-game data display that has stats on each rifle and each vehicle armor engine and weapon would be a very welcome addition to the game. Maybe add some spinning 3d models for shits and giggles too?

    the scout rifle must be removed

    The scout rifle is pretty much the biggest server killer ever. It’s basically useless, and it steps on the rifleman’s long range combat role. Most players take the class because they want to be good at long range combat, not because they want to sab buildings. The scout class needs more definition as much as the rifleman needs a scope for its longer range options, the BEAR and NFHR. Can we get this arranged please?

    also shouts out to sgt security: please don’t take the NFHR clip size from 12 to 10. it’s good where it’s at.
     
  2. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Coming in to say that a lot of the changes you are talking about happened last year whenever spartacus and empty gave up and candles reverted a bunch of things to 2.5, he did keep some of the changes though like scout keeping a 20% resist to bullets and the sidearm thing. The biggest change recently is the wall change, and making rifle better at longer ranges due to bear/nfhr buffs.
     
  3. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    Awesome! Need to put that in a hint somewhere.

    I've been trying to visualise the script values with gnuplot, mostly for showing differences in balancing, but I strongly agree we should have something like that in-game as well. It's rather difficult though, because of how incredibly complex our armour system is. And I don't think it needs to be this complex at all, either. Basically, we have an extra level of indirection through the damage types that should be removed where possible; speed to damage, for instance, makes it harder to change either the speed or the damage, because you have to change the other as well, and if you do that, you effectively modify the resistances of other armours that happen to have different modifiers. Instead, if we make weapons directly specify the damage dealt to each armour type, it will be easier to modify, easier to reason about changes, and easier to display something intuitive for the player.

    So yes, we should have what you suggest, but with our current system, displaying the damage value would be misleading because it's different for each target type.
     
  4. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I know this is perfect loungechair developement support here, but someone should just remake the entire armour system for something more comprehensive and transparant.
     
  5. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Also yes, this is entirely on the head, even weaker walls i have warmed up to... only thing is scout i feel it still is the runt of the family
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i for one dont like how its faster to just shoot a piece down than drive there and decon it.

    why in the world would you use milliseconds at this scale? ^^

    what happend to UML? UML is supposed to be the highest DPS missile available. its also supposed to be slightly better than any cannon to compensate for the lack of an arc and in relation slow speed.

    i just wonder, i barely ever see UML researched, even if a team already has HE.

    i really miss UML and not only since this version.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  7. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    people just dont like it for some reason
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i think it happened the version in which nf got 2x 3slots and salvo homing turned out super imba. i might be wrong, but i have the feeling since that version UML gets neglected.
     
  9. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I agree with transparancy.
    "Oh hey, this is Deflective, you gotta angle your shit for maximum protection."
    We should make the functionalities of each armor "obvious", through GUI change/hint and stuff.

    You know we don't have to remake the system to achieve that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  10. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    We do, it is currently spaggetti code and nobody 'really' knows anymore what does what and what affects what.
     
  11. CRITAWAKETS

    CRITAWAKETS Member

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    We should make empires show stuff in the gui other than damn text and an image of your vehicle. Make special armors have different vehicle GUI icons to slightly show what they do?
     

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