EPIC Server DevTest 14/01

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by RetroFade, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. RetroFade

    RetroFade Member

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    After joining late and being informed as to what happened in terms of changes made by Trickster, I feel like the game almost had a more intense pace in terms of vehicle combat, and the general protection of the CV.

    Towards the mid/late game, many more attempts to destroy the CV would arise, and the match would then become a back and forth fight for the win. One team initiates attack/rush towards enemy CV and the other defends, which then prompted the defenders to make their move with whatever counter attack they could muster.

    The strongest example was a match on Cyclopean, in which Team NF successfully prevented Trickster and Co.'s attack on the CV leaving Predator (Commander) flashing red. After this defense, Paradox organises a full APC towards BE, loaded within 10 seconds and leaving with a variety of all the classes (scout w/ stun stickies, riflemen w/ sticky bombs etc.) in it, accompanied by 2 jeeps. NF go on to drive through the BE main under heavy RPG fire and successfully chase and destroy Candles as the BE com trying to flee.

    I cannot believe how much more fun that game had become. Squad work was so vital in securing the resources necessary to actually win the game. Mkven, Nihia and myself took North without any support and we eventually pushed onto BE main. It made CV protection more of a priority earlier in the game and not one of those things that generally happens at the end of a match.

    While I don't think that these changes were totally complete, it did make more of an impact in aspects such as vehicle preservation, the use of repair pads were more prevalent and late game was generally more teamplay orientated.

    How did everyone else feel about this?
     
  2. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    That was one of the single most intense matches I've played in a while. The idea of a single gren being able to take out the CV, although it seems very overpowered, actually makes being the commander much more interesting. Instead of just dropping buildings and researching with throwing a few orders out here and there, I had to pay attention to my base at all times. A lot of the tedium of commanding due to just sitting around just disappeared.

    Paradox did an 8-mine on the back of the CV a few minutes before the final APC rush, and the sudden realization that the CV was actually something that was important really hit me at that moment. Before it was just a really strong tank, one that you only had to worry about near the end of the game and that if it got caught, you had a decent amount of time to try and save it. For something so necessary to the game, it never really had the "This is the single most important vehicle in the game. If you fuck up or around with it, you lose. If you do not protect it, you lose," kind of feeling. But now it actually has the feeling that something as vital to the match should have.

    I strongly and firmly believe that what Trickster did to those scripts on the EPIC server is nothing short of a most amazing and needed change. Empire's gameplay will take an exciting and much needed turn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    oh its back to 2.12 now? awesome, it gets more and more interesting, i think you might have me back in the next version if you like it or not ...
     
  4. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

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    Empires doesn't work with smartphones, just leave.
     
  5. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    aww w00kie, why so mean? constipation? dont worry, ill be back just to annoy the crap out of you ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  6. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    I loved it.
    This is how emp should be, fast furious and deadly.
     
  7. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    More feedback, as well as what probably needs to be fixed, would be nice. There's more I'd like to change but I can only do so much server side. I'll probably tone down vehicle MGs a bit, and give the armours a bit of an artillery resist given how quickly they were getting cut down, but I'm hoping I don't have to do anything else.
     
  8. Fooshi

    Fooshi For fuck's sake Fooshi

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    I'm loving it so far.
     
  9. PredatoR[HUN]

    PredatoR[HUN] Member

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    It was pretty awesome, both as a commander and a grenadier. Almost got killed there on cyclopean, completely forgot about the cv. A bit ashamed of that.
     
  10. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    Was great, i actually enjoyed playing today. That hasn't been the case for quite a while. The game moved a lot faster and the dynamic between tanks and infantry was vastly improved both in attacking and defending as a group.

    Vehicle MGs too stronk but you know that already.
     
  11. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Everything I want to say bout this has been said, but 1 more thing, the armors atm all just feel, equally strong, like no armor really stands out for its w/e the 40 percent cut of armor is really good but eg regen armor should regen faster to actually be called regen armor, reflective armor should reflect more and absorbant armor absorb more. Now when I'm a tank driver Idc what armor I have I just want armor in comparisement to other patches where it was, I want absorbant or I want this. They are almost all the same so it doesnt matter. Uhm, vehicle mg's are perfectly fine imo. 1 light tank can win against 1 apc with vehicle mg and vice versa, it all depends on driver now so its good. A little worry I still have is uml/he still being the best late game weapons. If I were you I'd fix this by giving he less damage but more area of effeect, and give ER more damage but less area of effect, almost non imo.

    edit: Loving how errbody going to play on EU server now :)
     
  12. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I actually see your point there, I did worry that there might be little differentiation between the armours. Apart from making regen actually regen faster, I don't know what else I can do without a lot of code support. I can't push the reflective modifier any higher to the best of my knowledge, although I'll try. And pushing the speed modifier on Absorbant any further could cause really bad imbalance. Reactive and Composite I've got nothing on. I have ideas but they all require a lot of code support, so they're not viable right now.
     
  13. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    IMHO composite was never meant to be anything unique. It's a light-weight durable armour that allows one to pack a punch and take it too. Don't fix what ain't broken; however, make sure that it isn't terribly inferior to any other armour.

    Reactive needs to have a weight-to-usefulness ratio. It's a pain in the ass to get electrical because reactive is too damn heavy, especially on BE where cannons make up the majority of weaponry (anyone every put on a dual-ER/HEcn + reactive tank? Not pretty.)

    You also have to consider that, as electrical's natural cannon is, in fact, the heaviest one in the game, the weight of the armour certainly doesn't help.

    Ultimately, reactive is a safe bet to buff.

    ...while I'm into discussing electrical (and keep in mind this is with no knowledge of changes (can you pm me a changelog if you have one written?) ), can homing and guided be buffed? Please?
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    you should make reflective the armor to get against turretspam or uml. It should be the absorbant against rails if you know what I mean, at the moment its not, or it was not, no idea how it is now with your reduc. Idk if it's possible but give absorbant armor an initial boost in health that goes away and doesnt come back untill your tank is fully repaired, this "synthesises" the "absorbing" capability of absorbant. E.G: 1 plate of absorbant is 20 hp, you have a an apc with 1 plate on every side, give it an extra, 10 hp for the entire thing, so when you get hit on 1 side for 30 hp you lose only 1 plate, but that 10 hp is gone forever until your tank gets fully repaired. This way absorbant will be good early game etc and late game with ehavies it wont matter that much. more of a hit and run tactic then.
    Reactive should just be how you guys designed it to be, heavy but able to take a hell lot of damage. so give reactive like twice the health of abso or something and make it even heavier if you want.

    edit:maybe let the absorbant capability be regenerative
     
  15. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Or buff Reactive's damage resistance, I believe from the charts sip made it's damage resistance was like 5%, it should be buffed to 15%. It's too heavy not to do that much work.
     
  16. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    Is that just a % of the damage reduced?

    EG: Std does 40dmg, 15% is 6, so reactive only takes 34?
     
  17. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    I believe that's how it works.

    Personally, this is how I view the armors:


    • Absorbent should keep it's StoD modifier and be the type of armor for constantly moving fights. Something light that can take a few hits and let you put some good weapons and engine on it, but not something particularly good for long fights. A hit-and-run type of armor, if you would.
    • Reactive should have a decent damage reduction percentage and be the type of armor for just trying to brute force through a battle line or block the enemy. You can't stick much more than a light weapon on it with a decent engine, but it'll get you through.
    • Reflective should multiply the damage taken by some power of the sine of the angle of impact (so the closer the angle is to 90, which would be perpendicular, the less the damage is reduced and the further it is from 90, the more it is reduced). It's great for skilled players and could potentially be the strongest, but if you're bad with it then you're shit outta' luck.
    • Regenerative should have a greater regeneration rate (as it is, it's so slow that it's only useful if you have no engineers or repair pads) and be the type of armor that's good with a large number of players that can constantly rotate out. You go in, take and throw a few hits, then switch out and heal up. Lather, rinse and repeat.
    • Composite should be strong, light and expensive, the "jack of all trades" type of armor, good for any kind of fight. You can shoot with good weapons and take a good punch, but it's going to cost you an arm and a leg to use it on your tank. Or perhaps be cheaper but have it be a "catch-all" kind of armor, always good but never great.

    That's just how I view them however. Obviously, they'd require a large amount of tweaking and testing, but each armor would be unique to use and have their own strengths and weaknesses instead of either them all being complete shit or having only one good armor. Regenerative and Reflective would take some coordination and skill to utilize properly but be pretty good if used well, Reactive would find its uses in holding down the fort or pushing through the lines with an APC or something, Absorbent would be the armor of choice on large, open maps and Composite would find its uses on maps that have both large and small spaces or late game.
     
  18. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    As I PM'ed you trickster I would tone down vehicle mgs and the damage arty (and maybee nukes) can do to vehicles.

    Paradox said a apc with vehicle mg can take out a light tank and vice versa. Well it all depends around the question if you want a apc that can spawn troops as powerfull as a light tank against vehicles.

    I think the problem is not an apc with dumg or whatever its the additional damage that a med or heavy can push out with a vehicle mg on a server with lower armor settings.

    I think a interesting idea would be to restrict anti vehicle mgs to APC's instead of reducing its damage.

    oh and I almost forgot remove 50 cal already!!!
     
  19. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Wow, what a difference. Everything becomes more important, tickets, res flow, research. For the Commander it makes things more interesting too, whilst it doesn't add anything new it makes everything he/she does more important now "every vet is a threat"!

    This really brings the best out in Empires - fast & accuration coordination at all levels just seemed to happen organically, it didn't feel forced or laborious because everyone was constantly on full alert. Everything seemed to have a sense of urgency that used to happen seldom or would tail off later in the game. There was no lulzing around, no mic spam or useless chatter - its not possible to just sit back and grind out the inevitable victory.

    For sure it isn't perfect but its a hell of a jump in the right direction. The MGs did seem a bit powerful, especially early in the game.

    Along the same lines as what Paradox said; I think that if this would be coupled with really making the specialisation of armors more dramatic (i.e. considerable buffs against certain weapons) I think it would really encourage more diversity in research. I would like to see games where a new counter or more effective weapon are genuine alternatives to heavy tanks. Though from my limited grasp of the technicalities I hazard a guess that this is pretty difficult to do.

    The nerf on the CV was really pushed home to me when I was CV rushed in my own base, with grens ready, knowing I was coming in hot. I was dead within about 8 seconds. Which is pretty awesome and is going to make commanding more fun & games more exciting. I do worry about how easy it will be to solo the CV with squad arty, etc. I really like the fast pace but I do worry that it will also double the effectiveness of those "cheap" ways to win. I foresee some new developments in base design to accomodate. I guess time will tell on that one.

    Two thumbs up! If those changes alone were implemented tomorrow and improved later I think we would all be playing better games in the interim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  20. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    You know I love you maya, but stay away from my 50 cal! you crazy old man!
     

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