AFV's and LT's are not useless at all, you just need to miss less hits, it doesn't take that many hits to kill a tank, ever. Fact is they seem underpowered as the APC is too powerful, but once you've put a better engine on it and make use of your class specific skills, you can push out a bit more out of the light/afv to make em last through the mid game. In higher numbers they still raise havok so I don't see where these comments on lights/afv's being underpowered come from other than the APC issue and people not yet used to the new changes. Every game I've played, from vanilla to reactive armor'd lights/afvs, I've enjoyed the battles much more than before, such an easy fix to make tank battles more fun and challenging. Whether or not its balanced with the rest in mind is a different problem and I think personally the high heat standard cannon is the way forward and things should be balanced from ehre on instead of reverting things back to the easy spam and high abuse factor of the cheap standard cannon.
The solutions given are great, but the fact that everybody says it 10 times makes it hard to understand how people can keep posting it over and over again.
would it be possible to remove the HMG research from the server until it can be balanced? I admit I research HMG to get the UMG, but ONLY out of fear of it being used against my team. I would love to see it removed until it can be rebalanced. APC's are now anti-tank via UMG, and anti-structure via grenades
People just want to remind at the problem and make sure it gets fixed. And about the APC issue. I think I have an idea to resolve the DUMG and DUHMG issues on them. Change the APC to have 2 MG slots, reduce the damage given by the DUMG some and make its clip a bit bigger. Now its size is 50 bullets on a clip and at the current rate of fire it runs out very quickly. When reducing the damage and increasing the clip size, you need to reduce damage so that it would do slightly less damage when you have shot for example new 75 bullets big clip to a tank whereas you shoot 50 bullets big clip to a tank now. Or keep the damage/bullet amount rate same so you will get certain amount of damage when you shoot the full clip to a tank. For example. When you shoot all your bullets to tank it gets 500 damage, that would be on 50 bullets big clip 10 damage for one bullet. On 75 bullets big clip it would be 6.66666 damage for one bullet. That's less for single bullet but you would get same damage done to the tank. Now you only would need to shoot longer to do that 500 damage and in this time tank would have more time to take down the APC before it totally destroys the tank. AND where would we put those Heavy machine guns? Let's put them in Riot Tanks. New chassis again and new model required again BUT at least the depleated uranium MGs wouldn't be so deathly in the start of the game PLUS you wouldn't be able to use the DUHMG because this Riot Tank's chassis would be either with the heavy tank chassis and artillery chassis or with medium tank chassis. I would place 3 MG slots on this tank and one or two missile slots. 3 Layers of armor. I think that would be one solution for the APCs of Death thing. Or just tweak the damage amounts, rate of fire and clip sizes of the DUMG and DUHMG.
That's all well and good, until an APC rushes in and kills you in 5 seconds, which, with the new cannons, is longer than it takes to kill it with a LT/AFV. Are APC's supposed to outperform those in combat now? Also, if you haven't played extensively in the past 2 days, don't post. It may look good on paper and everything, but people are just going to use what's strongest and fastest to research. Right now paper APCs are killing AFVs and LTs with armor and engines. Plus, they are cheap and easy to spam.
whats you propose is not nerfing the UMG, but nerfing the APC. it would be better to just remove the large UMG, so that the APC can still use the other 3 slot but balanced MG's
Ok the DUMG is way over the top. But isnt the real new problem squad leaders inside making it imortal ? How about..... making that not happen and have some other effekts for squad leader in vehicles.
Both statements are wrong. AP MG APCs are easy to kill if you learn their weaknesses: 1. 2 slot mg has 40 bullets and its ROF is high. This is the only way the APC can buy both chain gun (anti infantry) and AP mg (anti tank). Such APC is only good against infantry and very weak against tanks. 2. 3 slot mg has 80 bullets and its ROF is low. It's good to kill tanks. Due to no anti infantry machine gun it's extremely weak against infantry. And yes machine gun is easier to use than cannon but uranium MG APCs have enough of weaknesses.
Krenzo is already aware of it. I wouldn't base the light and afv balance just on the overpowered AP MG. Infact I'm pretty sure I mentioned APC atleast twice in my post. I realise how pissed off you are and so is everyone else, but don't need to take it out on every change that is made, it won't get us anywhere. When I was talking about the lights not being underpowered, I was ignoring the APC. Don't you think I know? Ive played 5 hours just with the apc, commanding and driving one, checking the scripts etc just to see whether or not there was something else going on other than just the nerfed cannons.
You need to look at what DU actually does, and looking on the wiki page for it, i've found This. It lists the M2 Bradley As using DU for a machinegun, and its specs are: -70 rounds per box -230 rounds in additional boxes The Bradley seems to use dual barreled machineguns, but the APC can carry only a single barreled one at most. Now, the ammo should not be the same, but 70 rounds and 210 rounds additionally seems to be good, just have a low firerate or high with rapidly decreasing accuracy, not capable of damaging heavier tanks, armor, etc, and not doing any heat increase or ammo detonation. This makes it good against early vehicles, but only a single one, the low firerate lets it barely survive a single light or badly armoured/nearly dead medium tank, the high firerate would let it survive 1 light tank with not too much damage if it's a close range attack, and if quick and accurate response is done, but the ammo will run out quickly, leaving it open to attack, and if the first attacker managed to fall back, he can kill the APC with ease. Just hope there's no grenadiers or squad repair nearby.
I like the direction the new balancing is headed to, before you could always win without ressearching any advanced chassis or anything else, but now there is a huge push for better chassis
This is an IMPORTANT message to ALL people that play empires Death APC Exploit RC18: get an engineer squad leader to drive an APC. put a squad member in the APC (or vice verca). the squad leader heal now comes into effect. this heal is so powerful that 4 ML turrets cannot take your APC down. your APC will be able to survive multiple HE blasts, and certainly any grendiers. but aside from that, your APC is now an invincible mobile spawnpoint. drive into the enemy base. sit there. shoot some men with your chaingun (this is even before DUMG) let your grenadiers spawn and destroy the base in seconds. rinse. repeat. I have used this tactic on several occasions to completely waltz into a defended base and crush it. on cdr canyon you can drive at leasure, kill any heavy tanks in your way and kill the enemy VF's in less than 5 minutes. there is nothing short of mines (which can be stopped if the driver has defuse) that can stop the APC. ------------------------ this is the number one reason why APCs are so powerful now. but aside from that, 3 slots (turning a normal anti infantry weapon into a tank and building killing weapon) enables the APC to take on any threats. I say- half the damage for all 3/2 slot MG's or limit the APC to a 2 slot.
I wonder why no one whined when I could kill heavy tanks with ease with AP MG APC in 1.07. Surely it's far more powerful than light tanks but you have light tanks from the start. Researching uranium mg takes time. So you can't compare it to paper light tank. Every vehicle other than APC can use multiple weapons (LT has 1 cannon + 1 ML, BE heavy has 6 cannon slots, 3 missile slots and 2 mg slots) Even though I don't have a complete suggestion I want to emphasize that nerfing it completely (removing 3 slot version) would make this game more primitive and less fun. Simply there would be less combinations for vehicle and less strategies for commanders. My random suggestions: - decrease accuracy - increase cycle time - increase heat per bullet so it can take tank only by shooting at its back - make turret less maneuverable so you could try to attack APCs back I hope we'll see suggestions that won't be like "remove AP MG, mg can't kill tanks" and such. More useful weapons combinations = better.
Wait, I can't put two people in my tank now? A gren and an engi squad leader fit nicely in any tank. Sure there is no spawn point, but a couple things: APCs haven't really changed from 1.07, so they're just as powerful Heavies can have two passengers for the hull build (and how do you survive indefinetly at 1hp per 2 seconds??)
Yes but tanks overheat and have gay cannons. The stream of spawning people is almost impossible to stop...... I guess you might all understand better in tommorows PUG
I smell ban coming for Private Sandbag, exploiting a bug and not reporting it. (Exactly same happened to me.) Plus: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?p=77733#post77733
it's a LOT more than 1 hp per 2 seconds... far more. in RC18, with organised teams i've just stopped putting armour on my APC's. there's no point. tried and tested: 3 grenadiers, a tank and 2 ML's (simultaneously) won't stop that APC getting to your CV, men hopping out and mining it to death. --------------------------------- lol ban... actually, i have already reported this (a couple of days ago)... and just thinking about the bases that we wtfpwned and pissed the occupants of no end... I thought the one way to make it less of an exploit was to make sure that EVERYONE knew about it- at least that way it was a level playing field.
