Engineer Ammo Box

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Alceister, May 10, 2009.

  1. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Here's another suggestion on the Engineer Ammo Box. Before I get flamed for my endless crusade on the subject, here we go:

    Instead of my previous ideas (moving to another class, unlockable ability, grenade alternative) how about this:

    Engineers can only build ammo boxes in the presence of nearby squad members. Each time (or number of times) he lays down an ammo box, he gains a rank point for doing so.


    Not only is this relatively simple, it satisfies two imperatives: that Engineer uses the ammo box for the benefit of the squad, and neatly resolves lone seismic grenade spam without crippling teamwork.


    Honestly, I can see no disadvantages with this idea, other than reducing the ability of the individual Engineer to "go commando" and wreak havoc out of all proportion to his numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

    -----

    Perhaps if the squad restriction is too much, it can also be used in the presence of other players?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  2. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    Why only his squad members? Doesn't people not in his squad need ammo? + I often use it for giving my own tank ammo, :)
     
  3. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Added non-squad members as an alternative. But preferably, I feel it should only be done in the presence of squad members so as to encourage sticking with your squad instead of going off on a random tangent.

    Again, I want to encourage teamwork insofar ammunition is concerned. Ammunition replenishment should work for the benefit of others as well.
     
  4. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    Personally I wouldn't mind BUILDING an ammo box as to just dropping an amo box but I think that it should have a limit to what it can put out. Like each amo box can only hold

    4 Grenades
    6 MG Reloads
    4 Rifle Reloads
    10 Pistol Reloads.

    If the box runs out any engineer can always spend more calc to reload the box.
     
  5. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    I'd prefer it if the ammo box wasn't a dispenser.

    Engineer dropping buildings is a selling point in the empires gameplay. Limiting that ability to squad aura areas won't help teamwork.
     
  6. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    I said ammo box. I didn't say anything else.
     
  7. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    I could post something useful, but whatever, this will have the same effect on you and much less reading.

    *Whine*
    *moan*
    *yell*
    *explanation*
    *blahblahblah*
     
  8. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

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    I dislike this. What if the engineer doesn't join a squad? This would force everyone to join squads... which, while it might sound like a good idea, has proven to be a bad idea in the past (look at what the free skill thing did) -- it results in people joining squads without really intending to use them.

    It could also result in really silly situations. Suppose my entire team is pushing a chokepoint, and all my squad members happen to die. Suddenly I can't drop a box because no squadmates are in the area? That doesn't make any sense.

    It's unintuitive to new players, too.

    Now, you know what I'd kinda like, silly though it might sound? Instead of a box, let engineers construct an entire armory. It would take a while. Possibly slow it down by making dropping it cost you calc energy (so you either have to build it while at zero energy, or have help from a second engineer / e-building teammate.) Making it cost calc energy (maybe even 100 calc energy) to drop, in addition to the energy/time used to build it would also prevent people from spamming it as a wall.

    They could use it to heal or change class, yes (although if it cost 100 calc energy and then had to be built using nothing but an empty calc, the length of time it takes to build one alone would seriously make that a not-very-useful strategy.) But you know what? I bet it would still encourage teamwork. People would see an armory and congregate around it. It would be used as a mini-bunker.

    It might sound like an engie buff at first. I disagree; it would be a nerf. Right now, an engie can step out of a tank and drop a box in an instant. With the excruciating construction time required to build one armory alone using an empty calc, though, that wouldn't be a big deal anymore.

    And right now, a comm can drop an armory for a mere 75 res anyway. Any of the benefits it offers can already be gotten for a silly-low price, much much faster than this would offer (because that doesn't empty your calc before you start building.) It can be used to block an area, but walls are even better at that and don't empty out your calc when you drop one.

    Yes, there's balance issues to consider... but overall, I think that it would be fun for everyone involved. It would encourage team members to work together to put up the armory the engineer just dropped, then use it as a bunker to defend the area.

    Sure, you could just have constructable ammo boxes... but those wouldn't be as fun, and wouldn't encourage as much teamwork. An armory means a bit more. It's big and visible and somewhat defensible. The healing helps everyone nearby more.

    The fact that it empties your calc to drop it means that it is very hard to build without teamwork... and it also means that engineers are encouraged to think ahead and drop it at key areas where it will help the whole team, instead of just dropping it whenever they want to rearm their own tank. The increased benefit of healing and changing classes works with this as well.
     
  9. Mr.Bungles

    Mr.Bungles Member

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    make ammo boxes destructible with a large radius and half damage.
     
  10. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    That's a superb idea. Lets screw over anyone else who wants to use an ammo box eh?

    I think that once more, I am being misunderstood. First of all, when I say build, I mean placing. No changes there. That mechanic will work as usual. Engineer with a full charged calculator can place an ammo box at no extra charge.

    Second of all, for those who do not like the squad option, there is the alternate option that it could be done in the presence of another player, rather than strictly with squad mates only.

    Third, there's the option of attaching a rank point each time or each few times the box is dropped.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  11. Roflcopter Rego

    Roflcopter Rego Member

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    You need to think to yourself, 'Is this really a good thing to go around solving?'

    To which my answer is no. If my teams to fugging shit to do anything other than camp main base and pwn people with mega sniper rifles, then why must you punish me further by stopping me actually being able to ninja out bases, seeing as this is the only chance we have of coming close to winning?
    I get the feeling this just happened to you once when you were com or something and you just raged about it. Guess what, I've been 16 mined before, it was really anoying but it was my fault for not putting up MGs around me. You can put up MGs around lone barracks and then you get a forward warning as the engi decons that, in which time you can roll an AFV or even a CV over him, if that's how you do things. This is hardly a mega OMG NOES unstoppable style tactic. It, like 9 mining ninjas, is really easy to prevent if you actively try to prevent it.
     
  12. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Because if your team is having fun camping base it makes no sense to allow one player to fuck that up by ninjaing the enemy base.

    The game is not about single players, as many players as possible must be made to play, if everyone loves to camp, find some place in the game for those people, or make sure they know what else is available.
     
  13. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    The problem is that MG turrets are not a universal solution to preventing Rambo Engineering. Lets take duststorm for example. Those big craggy rocks provide excellent cover from anything. A single Engineer can easily hide behind those rocks completely undetected by MGs, set up an ammo box and camera, and bombard a refinery without fear of retaliation.

    Neither is this specific to duststorm. Substitute the rocks with walls, and an Engineer can still set up a good amount of cover, or he can employ missile turrets against the MGs. And nor do MG turrets provide a decent warning against attack, because

    My point is this: a single Engineer can inflict damage all out of proportion to his numbers and cost. He can go on a ref rampage, and it will cost more resources and manpower to go after him and repair the damage than the Engineer is worth. Combine this with the fact that he has combat parity with pretty much every other class and secondary firepower courtesy of a turret, and put together you're going to need more than one person to go after him.
     

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