Empires League: Season 2

Discussion in 'General' started by Broccoli, Jan 14, 2008.

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Which of the following would you like to see in season 2?

  1. Format 1: Ladder

    33.3%
  2. Format 2: Global Domination

    27.5%
  3. Both Formats

    34.8%
  4. There shouldn't be a season 2

    4.3%
  1. knighttemplar

    knighttemplar Member

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    I think format 2 could feature loose teams. I don't think clans want to participate in that. Maybe it wouldn't be as organized, but that's what the boring ladder is for. I think large teams you sign up for is a feasible strategy
     
  2. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    Yeah, i would be happy if format 2 is more like you can subscripe to one team and play with it till death. No clan thing, more one half of the empires players against the other half and a week bevor each match they could discuss who takes part.
     
  3. petemyster

    petemyster Member

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    yeah, format 2 for big clans like BSID (im assuming)
    When i heard the idea for format 2 i thought that sounded awesome. You could almost do it like in Dark Crusade positioning your armies etc
     
  4. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Format 2 sounds the best to me.

    I have a particular dislike to ladders as I feel they're just there to pwn other people, there is hardly ever any comraderie in games and fun is not a part of them - it's all about beating the other team to a pulp and then knowing you're the best. Sorry, but I feel Empires is not the game for that - I already know people who can beat me an' I ain't that interested in that.

    What is interesting is the idea of having 2 large free-for-all teams fighting once or twice a week and battling (exactly like the back-story suggests) constantly back and force between each other, fighting for pure domination. It seems like it will be much close to a PUG situation and to my mind, so far the games I have played of Empires have been best like that. This is no FPS, 10 vs 10 teamplays are just boring and only for finding out "who is best" they do not promote fun, except to those people who revel in winning, and while I know that will be a lot of you, the rest of you may just want to have fun while still striving to win.

    This is why I voted for both, because while both may be difficult to run, a ladder is almost necessary for those people who are ultimately satisfied by winning and where gameplay takes 2nd place.
     
  5. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    I don't understand the point of "generals" or "teams of 10" in the second one. That's just making it pointlessly complicated.

    say: you join an affiliation of Northern Faction or BE. Whenever a match is arranged, which might end up being ever saturday and wednesday, you sign up to the match and fight for your team. If you or your inexperienced clan want to get to know what fighting in a co-ordinated and strategic team feels like, this is the place to start.

    I highly reccomend that current vet clans (JPL, CW and that other one) split their members up between BE and NF in this league, let them float around and mingle with other members of the community so that every game on the risk board can be exciting instead of stacked ("oh look, all of CW [who decided all to join NF in this example] signed up for the wednesday game, this is going to suck")

    The league is also neccessary, so that the current clans can duke it out as a team together. I'm sure JPL and CW are getting excited about the ladder, because that's be a great AND fun way for them to have regular organised games as a team.
     
  6. Evan

    Evan League Commissioner

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    If we decide to do the RISK map as a pubbers dealie, does anyone here want to head it up so the league can focus on the ladder for clans?
     
  7. Emp_Recruit

    Emp_Recruit Member

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    I don't see how people think the ladder is just about "pwning people". The risk style if anything is more about pwning people. CW is out SEEU is blocked in on all sides. CW and SEEU didn't even get a chance to fight. The ladder is a simple way that allows clans easy entry to the system as well it allows the clans at the bottom to have fun competing against each other even if they can't always win and would get run over in a risk style environment.
     
  8. Shinzon

    Shinzon Member

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    Has everyone forgot the "K.I.S.S" rule? Keep it simple stupid...

    No matter how cool it sounds on paper, if it is not simple it will not be fun... I mean look at the current league; it seemed simple and cool; but I doubt the clans that got eliminated are having fun...

    You are making things so complicated its frightning... The casual league should be just an extension of the PuG's we used to hold every week; so that regulars can have some decent matches, clans could field some "Casual" teams was well.

    I dont understand the argument about "Ladder is about Pwning" then why do we even hold the league at all? I want to play a high level game against a competant openent and just generaly have their and my own brains bashed out... So yes, the league is all about Pwning... The current Risk setup allows for maximum Pwnage as a clan got eliminated in a short run; and now can do nothing but head their head down like an emo child; while the remaining clans will duke it out for god knows how long... Now thats just not fun... No clan should be "Kicked" out of the season because they had some bad luck; no matter how bad things look there should always be a way to catch up...

    "Without Common Power there is no law" I dont know how in the world you plan to keep 50+ players organized; but throwing them a forum and saying go at it will not yeild good results...

    Remeber the meaning of casual; that means it can be picked up and dropped again with no big fuss; that means a low commitment level from players; they are there to just play some higher level matches compared to that of regular pubbing, that means that the league itself will have to organize everything 100%
     
  9. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    My only concerns are

    1. There are enough people to support a format:
    I like the IDEA of the global one but I'm worried about scrounging up enough players. That seems to be an issue with league this time around (admittedly the playerbase was a LOT smaller) and I think the smoothest league is the one that doesn't have to worry about finding members.

    2. The format operates fairly and eliminates any bias.
    One of the things that REALLY pissed me off about this season is possible map bias wasn't effectively eliminated. I know, the maps are pretty balanced, especially since SoF was fixed, but if the professionals can't make balanced maps (scroll down to the bottom), then what chance do the amateurs have? On that same topic, the ladder methodology is a tried and true way to establish clear-cut winners and losers. The global thing is sounds a bit more unorthodox.

    3. The concept increases the empires playerbase:
    I have no idea what would be better, but like broccoli said, if global is what is needed to attract new people into the game, then I see absolutely no reason to discuss anything any further. A few clan opinions should not decide the issue--after all, although ladder would certainly be more fun for us as a small group, that's not the overall goal of the league (or at least, it shouldn't be). If disappointing the 100 or so people who would even care about the ladder format is needed to attract 200 or more dedicated players into the game community, then I say go for global, hands down. After all, the one's you're pissing off, us hardcore empires players, aren't going to stop because of this decision, and a larger community will make the ladder format MUCH more viable in the future.
    Then again, one could make arguments for the ladder's increasing the game's popularity. I don't know; I have no idea WHICH would be better. All I can say is go for whichever implements this effect the best.

    Honestly, either version would be fine by me. However, I like my games low-pressure, that's why i don't command, and therefore I like the idea of only being one team in an entire force of units.. sure the victory isn't as sweet or clear cut, but the defeat isn't so painful either. Therefore I personally would prefer global. But My opinion is probably the antithesis of every other clan member, who would much rather try and win the whole thing for themselves.
     
  10. bitchslap

    bitchslap Member

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    sigh...so much confusion.

    ok..do both. ladder is good and fine and not just about owning people. its fun and challenging and simply good competition (which is what the clans want) no one is worried about losing 'maps' and stats are no biggy for some of us.
    its just good fun kick-ass matchs which we all yearn for.

    'casual' risk whatever thingy is sounding too complicated at this point. dumb it down and let anyone join, clan or no clan. all the clanless people can be ushered into teams that they will be with for the season duration and presto you have a randomly formed league season.

    only thing about the ladder id like to see different than current season is lets open it up. I mean 10v10 is crap. Not enough people and limited fun. Let's all try to do 20v20 and if clans need to bring in pubbers or regulars to fill the spots then so what. i weant to have max. fun with the ladder and competing in a large scale match has WAAAAY more dynamics then the 10v10 ones.

    CW can field 20, can the other clans ?
    if not then allow them to pair up with smaller clans (5 person rosters) per match that they need the people. this will allow us to have bigger more fun games. cause personally i dont care if we've got 15 cw vs 15 bsid / jpl and another 10 players from two diff. clans. it matters not. lets just make the games nice n big for max ass-kickery
     
  11. Emp_Recruit

    Emp_Recruit Member

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    IMO 10v10 is perfect, maybe 15 at the most.
     
  12. knighttemplar

    knighttemplar Member

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    I think the public games can be large. I was thinking 15 at the minimum actually. Having more people changes strategies, and I'm not sure clans would like their members using their 10v10 strats (if they have any that is). KEU's strategy is lol jeep rush, so i'm not sure how other clans think, if this would be an issue.

    I think loose teams, with 20v20 would really allow people to have a good time, meet new players and play a competitive game.
     
  13. Evan

    Evan League Commissioner

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    I think a prudent decision here would be to make the clan league a ladder and do a reformed nf/be RISK map for pubbers.
     
  14. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    Just make the risk system simple enough.
    - every region must be taken (no citadel or hq)
    - no fixed teamsize (10 vs 10, 12 vs 12, 15 vs 15, ... as long as teams are even it should be possible)
    - ... etc

    And please, do give commentary, it's what makes the demo so fun to watch!
     
  15. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    no citadel or HQ, i totally agree.

    The point of the casual one is that not only can the general public play, but more importantly new and inexperienced clans that want matches that are a little less competative can get into empires and have fun. that is the neccessary first step to get clans to start playing empires seriously.

    wtf stfu.

    seriously.
     
  16. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Ok, so maybe ladders aren't all about pwning. Ladders do promote good competition it's true, but after a while it does not turn out like that, and people get sucked into a blackhole of must wins and crushing defeats. It's very easy for this to occur, and it already did for CW during the league. This is because the league was an imperfect system, we should as some people have said, majorly focus on more pug-type games which promote comraderie and good will among the community, with a side event of the ladder, because it does work to an extent.

    Personally I don't think Empires is a 10vs10 game - if you look how useful a permanent scout is in those 10 you will see there are usually better classes to be.
     
  17. Degenatron

    Degenatron Member

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    I voted for Ladder Style.

    While I understnd the "it's boring" point of view, my opinion is that it does the trick, is far easier to co-ordinate, and is more flexible in that it allows clans to play either side during a match.

    The game speaks for itself (especially when raised to the next level in tourney play) without having to add in the Global Domination for show.

    D-Gen
     
  18. Broccoli

    Broccoli Member

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    *Sigh* I wish people would ask more questions instead of just jumping to conclusions.

    In the thread on the league forums, it is mentioned that teams would be able to play for either side in the global domination format (i.e. just because they are representing NF on the map doesn't mean they have to play NF every time in-game.

    In my original suggestion, it was also proposed that attacks on capitals could feature multiple teams per side, i.e. 20v20. There is no reason why this couldn't be carried over into other matches too, provided the server can effectively handle that number of players.

    The purpose of the capitals is to provide a feasible end-point (and climax) for the season, and a clear objective for both factions to aim for. A criticism of the current format was that it could potentially last too long. Well, if you were required to capture every territory on the map, this would still be the case.

    The purpose of the officers / generals is merely to aid in the coordination of activities. They would be responsible for announcing and agreeing to the scheduling of matches, and communicating with the referees. That is all. Again, this was done to avoid some of the disorganisation which has plagued the current season.


    A sort of stigma has built up around the global domination format, largely due to the premature start to the current season. Instead of throwing arms in the air and exclaming "Oh my god, why is it all so complicated?", Just read the explanation again. If you still don't understand something, ask. If you think I've missed something vital out, tell me. It really is not that difficult to understand!
     
  19. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    This free for all, global domination format is everything i want because i have not the time to be in a clan but i really want some intensive matches.

    We could make it like that:

    First everyone willing to play signs up for one team, the reverees have a eye on it so theres no skill stack.

    Than every team be & nf vote for one general and some (maybee 3) adjutants. This people are the cordinators for the team. They decide where to attack.

    Everytime a game is arranged the general posts a topic in the forums and everyone of his team willing to play signs in (first one wins).
     
  20. Emp_Recruit

    Emp_Recruit Member

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    There should be a new poll for just clanners asking what they want for clan matches.
     

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