Empires (2?) Design Doc

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by duke, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Personally? I like the asymmetric style of the current game, it adds character and gives a strong aesthetic to each team. Having the rebellion using older (and technologically inferior) vehicles to the occupying empire makes some sense, as they might be salvaging and repurposing older retired vehicles to fill their army.

    This is an interesting quote from the TF2 developer commentary on model design and readability.
    https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Well_developer_commentary (see points 13 and 15)

    I do know there is an imbalance between NF and BE tanks in Empires, and this is less than ideal. However the unique silhouettes and shapes of the vehicles makes them immediately identifiable at any distance. You can tell the class of tank, and which team it belongs to from just the outline alone. I fear if the tanks become too similar, you won't be able to tell them apart from a distance, especially with envionmentally appropriate camo.
     
  2. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    I don't plan on doing away with the unique silhouettes - i'm well aware of what they did with TF2, I just plan on getting rid of the obvious WW1 vs modern day tank look because its ridiculous.
     
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  3. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Well the storyline is that NF used outdated equipment they captured from old facilities and that BE had become more modern. Maybe that's why.
     
  4. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

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    Outdated by decades, not a century.
     
  5. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I mean true, to an extent.

    Ww1 tanks and WW2 tanks (Also the first MBT), were only 3 decades apart, not that much time actually. We went from a support fortress to stop people being gunned down so easily to a mobile destruction vehicle that could lay down fire to infantry, vehicles, and aircraft.

    By the end of WW2, there was already production of the first MBT, so from 1917 (Mark IV British tank) to 1946 (T-56 (Soviet), and Centurion (British), thats about 3 decades difference in development. Really not that long and totally plausible as the development of the tank was quite rapid as it was seen as a necessity. Hell, in 2 decades we went from mobile support fortress to massive amounts of death walls driving fast across a country taking land with the introduction of the Panzerkampfwagen II light tank, and even more with the Pz. Kpfw III and Pz. Kpfw IV medium tank (Not to bring in the different variants such as the F, G and H). This development also led to many different chassis refits such as the Wirblewind 3.7mm AA gun and Sturmgeshutz III Field gun/anti tank gun along with many other variants.

    The development gap is totally believable assuming the war that fucked Jekotia was a while ago. Hell, I'd say its actually expected since that time frame is about the time frame it would take for a new generation to take up arms since most of the older generation would be downtrodden or simply not enough of them left.

    Edit: Of course its all fantasy so it's whatever, but the gap is totally believable and probably quite accurate considering the designs of the NF tanks.

    I've played a shit ton of War Thunder where I've learned quite a bit of this. Game is fun as fuck and it'd be amazing if tank combat could behave similar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Everything should give visual feedback. Right now in Empires you can't rely on what you see.
     
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  7. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    And don't forget to make a design guide for mapping, you don't want to end up with half the maps being unplayable like Empires.
     
  8. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    *sigh* You know that Hammer and Source are old right? You know that, when making a map, chokepoints are a GREAT way of optimizing FPS and making a map playable. This is why open maps are kind of non-existent or have little detail because it's taxing. Silk changed up the layout of Echelon to be more choke pointy when he realized that a player had a view of too much land, I had to change forestattack to fade out all props at a very short distance because there is 0 blockage, the list goes on and on for maps and why some are designed the way they are.

    Also, your version of fun, again, is not the version everyone should go by. You like a hardcore game. A lot of maps you hate other people like so please don't say they are "unplayable" just because YOU don't like them. A lot of the maps are very playable with a play style some people enjoy. Just because you hate it doesn't mean that everyone should bend over backwards for your requests. Unplayable maps are maps like Balloon-heist which cause a crash. That is unplayable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  9. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    For official maps and custom maps that want to join the official club, I'd agree with a few simple principles like "commander maps should not have more than XXX tickets."

    Other than some simple principles, we really shouldn't choke mapper's throat.

    As I said somewhere, the problems that happen on some maps are merely reflecting the problems with the fundamental gameplay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  10. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I'll donate €5 if an empires sequel gets released with VR support.
    I'm sure that'll cover the costs ...
     

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