Empires 2.6.4a released

Discussion in 'News' started by Candles, Mar 21, 2015.

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  1. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Compo regens at like 2% of a plate every second. That's not quick at all.

    If a gren can put an RPG on a particular side every 15s (RPG cycle time is only 3s), then compo regens 16HP on that plate. RPGs do 130HP of damage per shot, so they completely blow past any regen.

    I'm tired of people continuously claiming that vehicle armors can regen faster than a gren can damage them. It's not even close. There is absolutely no discussion on this topic. There is no rebuttal. It is simply a patently false claim.
     
  2. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    10 hp with the 5 seconds after damage....?
     
  3. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    I didn't say anything about that. Answer a question that's not been asked and you will get tired.

    My APC is survivable now for about 20 minutes. Now you might think that it's nothing, but as far as I'm concerned it means that composite with regen is buffed in everything but a straight fight.

    Having utility buffs on an armour still buffs it.

    Why is it you guys always look at something only flat out, when actually the point of Empires is that it isn't a straight fight. That's the entire point of Empires. It's not supposed to be linear.

    And thus when you give something non-linear buffs, it becomes much more important in the game.
     
  4. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    yes it is
     
  5. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Don't give me your backpedaling horseshit.

    There's no taking that shit out of context.

    Your "free red plate" has <10HP and is effectively useless. It might as well not be there.

    I've heard the "I instantly get a partially regened plate" routine about a million times and it's irritating.

    Yeah, you're getting something within a pretty short amount of time, but it's worth basically nothing, so it's entirely reasonable given the short time investment.

    There is no problem with compo's regen rate.
     
  6. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm agreeing with spartacus. Regen isn't the problem with compo. Honestly I don't think it has a problem currently, reflective and capacitive both have more going for them in the fights that usually kill tanks compared to compo. Compo's rather nice thing is that it's usually the better option for heavy tanks, but not the best choice for meds or lights.

    Actually now that I look at thread title, why are talking about this in an old patch thread. Anyone looking at it might think compo didn't get a bunch of nerfs recently, which leave it strong but not op.
     
  7. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Really?
    Why do you even think I'm talking about grenadier RPG's? Why?

    With your numbers, 2% every second means 3 plates regenerated in 2.5 minutes. I turn my APC to the side on its armour being depleted - quickly - and I go mobile. While firing anti vehicle MG's and staying out of the reach of meds, it's not very long before I have 1 green plate and 1 yellow plate on that side. I now effectively have reliable armour that will take a shot, and I've not picked up much more flak otherwise.

    The time it took for me to regen that armour, saved me from having to beach my APC, repair it, and try to escape.

    That's what I'm talking about.

    No grenadiers involved.


    You know, I'm incredibly incensed with a few people right now. Incredibly so. But it's staying off the forums for two reasons, one is that I respect Krenzo and Beerdude and the other developers enough not to bring that kind of crap here, because they don't deserve it. The other is I'm actually afraid no one would give a rats ass, and that I've spent 8 years in a place that's actually a hellhole, contributing to something I should have spat on instead.

    And still, with that in mind, my posts have been civil.
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but I get the feeling that people are kinda crap. Tank fights lasting a minute is rather off, I only see that happen when people are firing from afar and possibly have engy support. With apcs being the same speed as meds now I don't see how anyone can actually run away in a apc either. Like even if you run, they can still hit your back, but like I said I think they weren't hitting you much at all, that and you didn't have many grens firing at you either.

    I suppose this is why bio ml and homing are really popular, they require the least effort for anyone to use. Bio in particular can damage the side you can't actively hit if they spin their tank, which is incredibly great for finishing off tanks.

    I just want to put this into perspective, regen of course has regen, it regens at basically 4 hp a sec, compared to compo's 1.6. I don't hear people complain about lasting forever with regen. There is of course a bunch of reasons for this, it's heavier by 3 a plate, has 20 less hp a plate, and none of the reflect and speed to damage modifiers. It is balanced around the idea it can regen and that's all it can do, which is what you want for hit and run tactics or basically on open maps.

    Compo does indeed have a ton of extra's on top of that regen, so it's a lot more general purpose but with the ability to stay in extended engagements, or rather don't require grens to go back for repairs. I think these are the points you are getting at?

    Honestly, this feels like a case were regen is simply balanced by having low hp, with the ability to effectively have more than that over time. Which means regen's main problem, having too little health used to make it worthless against grens and heavier tanks when it couldn't regen from 0 plates, was fixed when it could regen from 0 plates. In the process, it gave compo much more staying power for any grens, rifleman, or engineers that didn't want to hop out to repair. Which is leading to this problem people are mentioning of being able to run for a bit and come back to without really pausing for a second.





    All that said, I kinda have to stand by my original thought and people can't aim, cycle times are so low and damage is too good for people to actually live long enough for compo to fully regen or even half regen. I like compo's ability to regen, I like the amalgamation of other armors, but what would make some people happy in this circumstance is to make it so compo couldn't regen from 0 plates, or just get rid of regen on it. I'm not big on removing regen entirely.
     
  9. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Compo is pretty healthy overall, the regen is nice but not game-breaking. The problem is that other armors don't hold up to compo very well.
     
  10. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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  11. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Yeah, you asked the question of why it regened at all and then proceeded to describe that it regens too much. But I'll pretend to be a robot and answer exactly what you said at first while disregarding all other context that a normally functioning human would pick up.

    Compo has had a regen for years because it is a composite of all of the other armors.

    Its description is plain as day:

    Since it's brain-dead obvious that a "composite" armor needs some regen or else it's not a "composite" armor, the much more interesting discussion point is, "is it too much regen?" The benchmark for determining that is the RPG.
     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    the original composite meant only that its made out of compound materials not that its a composition of features.
     
  13. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah, but reactive was given what compo used to be, so compo was changed to something else. Honestly, there's a limit of useful abilities and we simply have too many armors to make each one worthwhile.
     
  14. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Because two new armours were introduced.

    Your justification for composite being an amalgamation of features is because the description was changed? So composite was changed to reflect that and then somehow people wonder why it's always taken?

    My point, and what I am saying is that regen should be removed from composite. Not that the regen is too much. That's an example of me showing you how bad an idea it is for composite to have regeneration - even a paltry amount. In case you didn't get it. As a normally functioning human, I mean.

    If you wanted my actual explanation of why it's poor idea, here it was: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=504430&postcount=16

    I assume you just ignored it though.
     
  15. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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