Empires 2.52.3 Released

Discussion in 'News' started by ImSpartacus, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    that topic you provided has no mention of shotgun problems. and no mention of smg problems.

    love how spartacus' many examples where he states his opinion on shotguns all come from april 5th or april 20th. he wasnt even a scripter then.
    are we supposed to remember every bad posts ever made
     
  2. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    pffff

    I have a d6 4+ invulnerable save.
     
  3. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Well, my idea would be to nerf melee in favor of the shotgun, but that's just me.

    Also if you guys complain about the engie being able too out-damage a rifleman, that is only at close range. If you run head first into a shotgun, it's your own fault.

    Another thing I want people to think about is this: Why are three essential support functionalities on one class? I am talking about repair/building, ammo supply and healing/revive. I mean Battlefield sure has a reason those are distributed across three classes and you are wondering why only a few people play anything besides Engineer. Whenever I play I almost always find myself playing Engineer, I don't even think about it anymore.
     
  4. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    The maps on which the shotgun is viable , so the less open ones,make NOT running into, or being ran into for that matter, nigh impossible. Not to mention players dont have neon signs above their heads about what weapon they have.
     
  5. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Well that is the point. If you are in close quarters, use a shotgun. That's what the bloody thing is made for. Why do you expect to win close quarters with a mid/long range weapon against a close range weapon? I seriously don't get it.
     
  6. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Yeah, the range is a bit much, but nothing is ever final.

    I still hear from noobs that the shotgun is quite fun (though it's been way too early for any definitive conclusions). If we have to have a noob magnet, I'm ok with it being the shotgun because it's common video game knowledge that shotguns are nigh useless at anything but close quarters. Likewise, video game sniper rifles are often used at moderate effectiveness in all situations depending on aiming ability.
     
  7. Vdragon

    Vdragon Member

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    Well, when that "close" range weapon is dangerous at 50 meters and an assured kill at 10, sure.
    Look at how the tf2's scout's scattergun works, it's deadly at extreme close range (deal 120 damage or so at 1 meter/50 cm), but useless at 10 meters (something like 20 damage at best), all that with generally faster movements and tinier maps, it makes sense.
    But when you get to empires where infantry is sluggish, even a shot gun like the scout's scattergun would be sort of OP in close range situations, because of the inability to dodge it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
  8. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    I don't really get what your point is. Do you want to remove the thing entirely? of course it's going to be harder to dodge a single shot of a shotgun than a shot of any other single projectile weapon. The disadvantage of the shotgun lies in the time it takes to fire the next shot. (And of course it's range.) Miss one shot close range with a shotgun, chances are you are going to be pumped full of lead by any faster firing weapon.
    I mean I haven't played the latest iteration of script changes, but what I would want the shotgun to be, is a beast that eats face beats everything else at close range, period.
     
  9. Vdragon

    Vdragon Member

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    Try to play the last version, the problem is pretty obvious.
    I'm not saying this is a problem for it to output massive damage at close range, but it's a problem for it to ouput them at longer range. The point is that it should be much more like the scout's scattergun: deadly at point blank, and almost useless 10 meters away.
     
  10. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Well then shorten the max range and start the damage falloff earlier. I don't even need to play test that to be able to tell you how to fix it.
     
  11. Vdragon

    Vdragon Member

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    You may like to reduce the number of pellets (32? really?) and augment the spread (could be an alternative to augmenting the damage falloff value) as well.

    In a final word about my thoughs on this, i would like to have the BE assault rifle back on automatic mode and not-shotgun. Or get a real automatic shotgun, separated from the long range rifle...
     
  12. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    32 is pretty damn high. Most shotguns only use 20 or 12. That's where the name of the ammo comes from.
     
  13. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    They're in one class so that people play engineer more. Engineer is supposed to be the base class for Empires with at least 50% of the team taking it. It has all these great abilities so that all teams would be likely to take the class and so the game would function. You need a lot of people repairing, building and throwing down ammo, or you will hamper the core mechanic of the game.

    Engineers are part of the core mechanic. That's why they're pimpin'.

    Edit: You don't see many people e-building. Imagine you had only 25% of the team as engy - not enough would get built. It's necessary for the game to function.
     
  14. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Well if that is the intention and it's actually the way it goes, I don't get why people complain that the roflman isn't played more often.
     
  15. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Personally I don't think the problem with the shotgun is quite that it is an instant kill, it is just with so many pellets doing so much damage(its 30 a pellet) you can have like half your crosshair pointing at their legs and get a kill. You have to remember the old shotgun could actually kill at near melee range if you aimed at the chest/head area, this new one doesn't even require aiming. It's melee upgrade without any of the problems melee upgrade has.

    I don't see the complaint about not enough rifleman. I usually see the complaint about not enough grens, but I think that is more not many people are as good as neoony and so it seems like there isn't a gren on the team.
     
  16. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Anyone who's complaining rifleman isn't played enough doesn't know how it's supposed to go. But I don't see that so much right now, rather that the engy is being too effective (with shotgun at least) against them, which shouldn't be the case. Engineers have lots of perks so that they'll be played, and they're balanced by having decent (in all situations) weaponry, but not great stuff. Having the engy as powerhouse in close combat shouldn't be necessary, because the smg2 was always good enough for that, if need be.

    I haven't played with the new scripts, that's why I'm not commenting on the weaponry very much. I don't think it's fair to Spartacus just to lend my voice to the "this is crazy" side without playing with it first. I mean, sure, from the outline the changes seem a bit spastic (unlike his first patch, which I thought was cool and a bit more incremental), but then I don't really know how to read the infantry weapon scripts anyway. And "lol papermache" has to be a joke because it's really not keeping in form with the rest of Empires, and if someone does that seriously, they obviously want a different game than the one we had.

    Up until now, it's been a struggle to get decent names for lots of things. Armour, has never been one of them. Krenzo was in the navy and I'm pretty sure he did his research when naming them.
     
  17. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Empires has updated at least three times since the last news announcement on Steam.
     
  18. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    It's been four. Candles has always released silent hotfixes.
     
  19. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Hotfixes aside, there is no mention of the huge shotgun changes on the Steam news tab - I've been saying this for a while now, in case nobody caught on.
     
  20. wealthysoup

    wealthysoup Lead Tester

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    ......
     

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