Empires 2.5 RC4 has been released

Discussion in 'News' started by wealthysoup, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Just a request, could you put timestamps on the changelog? I just like knowing what day the patches came out.

    Also where's my arty cams.
     
  2. wealthysoup

    wealthysoup Lead Tester

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    Check the dates on empires homepage :)

    I'll do it in future if i remember
     
  3. 101010

    101010 Member

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    emp_eng_remove_walls

    Been wanting that for years. Thank you
     
  4. Neo Daedalus

    Neo Daedalus Member

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    If you really want to remove gren spawnkilling, I suggest you simply make melee upgrade exclusive to rifleman and scout (where it makes the most sense). The gren will still have his mines, but at least he won't be running around one-hitting people as well.

    As far as pistols are concerned, it should be only 2 hits for a kill if you ask me, after all, the melee attack speed isn't that fast for it to be a problem.

    As far as smg mlee are concerned, I agree, that there's no point in taking the shotgun anyway. Especially with the slow as fk firing speed from the shotgun and the fact that shotguns do have reduced damage when hitting limbs. It's only really worth taking a shotgun when you can do the exploit. Otherwise right now the shotgun right now is just a gimmick weapon.
     
  5. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Shotguns are dandy, I like them. If you aim right(and have a bit of luck) they can kill in 1 hit, 2 shots at most. Distance is much father than melee too, so it is nice. Only thing I kinda hate is how slow the melee is for it compared to every other weapon. With how terrible hit detection can be sometimes melee on the shotgun is pretty much worthless. Still, I need to alternate between that and smg2 to see which is really better, I haven't had quite enough time using it to see if it is really better than smg2.
     
  6. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    I'm not as pleased. The shotguns don't feel like video game shotguns. They feel like a longer range melee.

    I've always thought of shotguns as being balanced by effective range, not aiming ability. It's pretty horrifying to "miss" a shotgun blast on a target that's definitely in range.

    But given that there are quite a few people that are satisfied with the current style of melee, I'm not terribly surprised that shotguns ended up working similarly. Hindsight is 20/20, eh? :P
     
  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    You can always miss a shotgun shot, there's no way around this.
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    They are balanced by range though, they are worthless from 1 end of a rax to the other in terms of distance, maybe even a little less. Same kinda range you find in other games I think. Even then it will take 3 shots to kill anything at that range. The only game where you could really use a shotgun from a decent range was insurgency, that source engine mod.

    That is ok though, like you said it is kinda an extended melee. So who gets it? The engy and scout, the classes that would rather fill in their 2-3 skill slots with something else.

    Unless I am misunderstand and you think that if you get them somewhere in the general vicinity of you aim reticule you win? Or seriously hurt them? I wouldn't know about that, every game I played had to require either a close shot to the chest or head to kill in 1 hit, barring games with "realistic" health and damage.
     
  9. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so let it come down to which click registers on the server first? meh

    also choke - damage falloff is huge in comparison to fmj or slug rounds. if spread is the size of a human there isnt much mass per cm² anymore. idk how you want no aim
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  10. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I'm happy with the 1-shot potential of the shotgun, but the fire rate is still far too slow. We're going to look into how we work the animation, but given the fire rate is currently every 1.1 seconds, my aim is to get it closer to 0.6/7, with exactly the same stats besides that that the weapon has now. Potentially more starting/max ammo is required as well.

    This will generally make the weapon a lot more lethal, and this is before we even start talking about adding slugs and stuff, which is in the pipeline.
     
  11. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Lazybum described it accurately. It sounds "meh", but it's ridiculously fun.

    That's how Halo's shotgun operated and people loved it.

    Watching montages, you can be aiming at arms, legs or shoulders and still 1-shot people. The important thing is range.

    You didn't really have to "aim" Halo's shotgun, but you had to concentrate on range. If your enemy was within a certain range, it was a ohk. If not, then you needed a follow-up shot (and you likely died before).

    Contrasting with our shotgun, I haven't noticed any "range" sweet spot like I did with Halo's shotgun. I'm too busy adjusting for lag and doing a bunch of other stupid stuff.

    It feels like a slower-firing assault rifle, not a shotgun.
     
  12. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Halo is too open, such shotguns would destroy in way too many situations.
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so you want autoaim? cmon please ...

    i mean you just showed a video of a console game ...

    spartacus ...

    ...

    ...

    i sad
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  14. Neo Daedalus

    Neo Daedalus Member

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    I think the priblem lies elsewhere, the damage to the body kills anything in one shot, except for a rifleman with health upgrade (survived with about 25 hp), we tested that with candles.

    The problem if you ask me is the inconsistency of damage. I've adressed this in the suggestions section with possible solutions as well. Why did I say thet, becouse I've actually played quite a lot with and against shotguns and what bothered me the most is that sometimes I could kill an engie in one shot (from full hp) from a distance a bit longer than melee, yet another time he had llike 65 hp left (viper gives you that info). I do believe the decreased damage on limbs is to blame, but as I've said, there's a topic in suggestions.

    Also, Trickster, I do hope Candles has notified you about the exploit. If not, PM me and I can do it for him.
     
  15. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    There's no autoaim on the shotgun, it just has a big spread. I can confidently say that because there IS auto aim in other weapons, but it's not on the shotgun.
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Didn't a lot of console games have a bit of aim assist? It wasn't a hack exactly, but it would just kinda nudge the reticule in the direction of the person you are trying to shoot. Also spart this suggestion would effectively make melee, yes melee, pointless. All of a sudden you take away melee's great weak point, its hit detection, and make shotgun's OP as hell. This isn't an arena shooter(even if some of us play it like that) so that is dumb. Trickster's thing about upping fire time might be good enough, or just removing the reduced limb damage would be fine I think.
    Oh neat, though I do remember hearing from candles that it wasn't quite working, at least the original plan wasn't. I guess there is something simpler but working planned instead. Still, if you did something like this I don't see a reason to use any of the smgs, assuming slugs work something like bf3/4, that shit was great.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  17. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Shouldn't melee lose to a shotgun? I mean, cmon.
     
  18. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I worded that bad, if people complain about how melee is bs, what are they gonna say about something that is even easier to use with twice the distance and not missing a shot?

    On a somewhat unrelated note, scout rifle needs a bit of a nerf in the body damage department. The no sway and pin point accuracy is making it a bit stupid. Lower it to 50 at least please.
     
  19. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Judging by that video you linked, Halo's combat takes place at far shorter ranges than Empires does, so the same rules of balance don't apply.

    50 at least? It was 45 before and totally useless. It's now 75, reduced to 60 by the time you're hitting visrange, and that's before armour is taken into account. The clip is only 5. It seems relatively fine to me, and I've used it a fair bit, as well as being shot by it.

    Uhhh....I was kinda the one who found it and started doing it ingames and making macros for that shit. I feel slightly bad but it was just too much fun to pass up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  20. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    I would be happy with massive cone for the engy/scout shotgun.
    Have a one shot kill at point blank only with more pellets.

    This way engy has options depending on map/play style. Corridor like map or storming enemy base choose shotgun for around the corner spam on multi targets.. Everywhere else... choose SMG.
     

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