I'll be putting some effort into this map to hopefully make it a more fun, well rounded empires map. It's already got it's own distinct style and I have no plans to change that, just some small layout reconfiguration and expanding/adding small routes. Please post any grievances you have with the map or any ideas you have for it's improvement. The original thread is here: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=2569 What my changes are gonna be: re-adding wall placement, limiting turrets to level 1 adding in a height factor to the map, emphasizing a difference between the main road level and lower levels moving both sides' first flags and making them more interesting to have to capture remaking both starting bases to be more interesting and fitting
Underground area needs significant work. I had the idea of adding an underground flag as the middle cap, to force infantry combat and seperate the tanks out (to prevent all of those fucking stupid 2 minute APC rush wins that end the map quickly) Remove the secret button in the church, it's stupid. More enterrable buildings would be nice. Walls need to be restricted. Period. Access to the train line might give unique infantry positions + sniping positions, not sure if it's a good idea or not but you can experiment.
omg i love you. i was thinking of working on a modified version of urban. ill edit/post more details and thoughts when i have some free time, but for now: Walls need to be allowed. Period.
Make it a little bit harder to cap the first flag after you capture the 2nd. Usually when people cap the 2nd, the first one will be captured in seconds.
The underground area is definitely something I'm focusing on, with the main road becoming more of an overpass, with parking garage space and things underneath it. As for walls the devs want to see walls enabled in the map again, but I'm tossing around some concepts for map buildables in certain places.
walls are not invincible anymore, so they should be re-enabled since they were enabled long ago. walls play a pretty big part in what makes this game what it is (along with other engy options and squad abilities). its sad to see it disabled in infantry maps also i tried placing some map buildables in eastborough (to show people that you can build walls because they are idiots), and its apparently borked so good luck with that (they instantly respawn when i want them to disappear forever
Yeah, no-one throw hate at Varbles for walls and turrets, that's my call and he's just doing what I said, so he's not responsible for any issues that arise from that. I will say that walls will need to be area-restricted in some of the tighter areas underground, but Varbles knows this. The fact is, as Lamer said, walls are much more vulnerable now, and I'd like to see them back in the likes of Glycencity and Urbanchaos, where they stopped rounds ending in 2 minutes, which they tend to do now.
I think one of the biggest issues with Urbanchaos was the cap areas. NF's cap points are out in the open with very little cover, whereas BE's cap points are in enclosed areas with tonnes of cover.
yes the 2nd nf flag really should be inside the church. it "only" needs a 2nd entrance - maybe a connection from backstreet to tunnels over church?
you could definitely do a lot of cool stuff if you had three levels, and that would nerf walls. I love the idea of a parking structure underneath, have you ever been to NYC or another big city with overpasses going through essentially commercial neighbourhoods Varbles? something like this only probably lower and more intergrated
I'd rather it didn't end up with too many routes, 2/3 is more than enough, and 3 is really pushing it when we're talking about a linear infantry flag map.
I think infantry fighting gets a lot better when it takes place in wider passageways, like lower area by BE's second flag, than when it takes place in tight narrow hallways like you find around the rest of the map. My approach is to widen many of the tight infantry hallways to bring them more into play and make them able to support a fun fight. New routes aren't my focus, although I'll be expanding one of the current routes for each team to cover more distance in the map.
anybody have a good excuse for not allowing other engines/armour? i for one, do not like dying in 2 shots in a ultra slow vehicle, and its not like theres a res problem now that we have wages
stay inside or prepare getting wet. i find this map the only one where tanks arent completely overpowered from a defensive perspective. their cannons are severely underpowered though - chainguns are ok, it just needs you to not stand still and dodge stuff. it would be absurd to just run a tank through such small street, though i can understand a players urge to do it, it shouldnt succeed - tank should mean support in such enviroment, stay behind corners only pop out to support infantry pushing up or defending against a push - sadly empires infantry/tank balance doesnt allow this at all - itd need something like plain avfs/lights with hecn and a cg ...
limited access to armours and engines would be ok on urbanchaos imo like absorbant reflective and reactive and their corresponding engines. the only thing that would really actually break it is if you allowed mediums, so just keep the basic chassis, and those 3 armours and engines. rpgs can take all of those out, and with sticky nades to deter balls out rushes, and nine mines back in the game, I don't really see why you couldn't have some tougher tanks here. probably would need to have at least two serious tests, one with a low player count, and one with a high one, just to check that it doesn't wind up with every player in a tank. the streets themselves and the layout of the map should be enough to balance increased armour and tank speed, and those things in turn are just generally more fun.
Remove whatever generates res, force players to use wages in order to buy tanks, players are compelled to play well if they want to drive tanks.
