Yeh, it's done as a total. We just had an epic round of this, HSM did an APC rush down the left hand side tunnels, we dropped an armoury, spammed arty into it, got 2 apcs, counter rushed his CV and killed it. I like this map, although there are a hell of a lot of tunnels, so easy to get lost in, but I still enjoy it. I don't by any means thing they're useless, but it'll take a while to get used to the map.
looks fun to play, but first, a big fat AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I'm only not putting that in a massive font because I can't be bothered to go advanced on this post. the ahhhh is because... you added res to the MIDDLE OF THE MAP!!!! that's one of the core gameplay mechanics that made money so good for newbies, that you don't have to control the map! it was an even, fair match right up until the end because even if your newbie team and your own newbie self were pressed right into your base, the only advantage the enemy team gets is that they are shooting your buildings, which could seriously limit your ability to spawn / make vehicles / research etc, while you are only fighting them. Lets be honest, even for really good teams, it's much more fun if the teams have equal money than if one team dominates the other one. On an essentially linear map (i.e, no alternate base positions, you're always attacking in one direction), there's no massive need for refinaries out of the origional bases I'd really recommend you remove the flags and instead stick extra refinaries in the base to keep the total cash flow even. To make all the areas that are currently fought over by players simply because of the flag still fought over, keep the flag, but instead make the flag bring up ramps and walls to make whichever-team-owns-the-flag's base more defensible. ramps come up to let vehicles out but not enemy vehicles in, side passages blocked? (because nobody leaves their base by the side passage unless the enemy controls the map, in which case the enemy will have captured the flags.) the massive advantage of this use for the flags is that it also solves mayamas "there are too many entrances to each base to make them defensible if you're attacking the enemy base" problem, as you can make your base airtight or just very defensible until the enemy pushes you back. edit: oops, sorry. I never once said "great map, good job", i really should have.
Those flags in the center were already there when I inherited the map, and they were the only means of earning resources. They were originally set to give 10 resources per second to whoever is holding them. There were no resource nodes. I added 4 to each half of the map & changed the center flags from being 10 res/s each to being 5 res/s each, all in order to help deter middle from being so insta-win for whoever maintains control of it. I figured that doing this would also help discourage flat-out turtling, while also preventing absolute defeat if you don't hold the center. Basically, I was trying to set it up in a manner by which each team would need to at least persistently contest the center, so that fighting for it is necessary, while failing to hold it wouldn't be entirely catastrophic for your team. It's an experiment, essentially. We'll see how it goes, as it can always be changed. If it comes down to removing the resources that the flags give, I can instead make the flags activate brushwork -or- helpful placements of health and ammo boxes and the like. That's the great thing about mapping - nothing's ever truly permanent.
It's a shame that you can't use a different model set for all the buildings on this map, given that almost all the surfaces are flat, so a large, thick building footprint wouldn't be needed.
I'm going to fix some things on that map. John Shandy already provided me with b1, seems like only keef has the current version. Plans so far are: .) Fix the problem 2 posts above. I'm going to add small areas to build on the outside of the map, so raxes can still be built up there. I was aware of the problem, and I allready had a complete rebuild of the map with the fix (tho the reason for the rebuild was something completely different -> http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27393; sadly my HDD died so its all gone -.- ) .) I'm going to limit tank access through the tunnels. I'm NOT going to remove them, but i'll add doors with a button. The button will be accessible for infantry of the opposing team, but you will need to get out of your tanks first. (buttons will be inside these passages for infantry) .) I'll place some props (crates and tons). Dunno, for me the map runs pretty well, even if fully renders at allmost every position (did you two fix that, btw?). This was initially planned to add additional routes, mainly in center and to add some cover at the sides leading to that bridges into the base. .) If im totaly bored i'm going to retexture the whole map as it was intended at first. This might be in the next version tho. Btw this map was never planned to be money2 (at least not cash-wise) I planned to add only very little resources (and i really mean VERY littel) but almost infinite tickets (cuz i hate them) to produce a nice little stalemate (something i like), while still providing enough possibilities to flank the enemy (dunno if I managed to do that). Anyway, you guys seem to like it, at least i got told so. Makes me happy and proud at the same time (thats the map I did to learn hammer - tho I mapped for Q3 and UrT before) so I'll leave it to you as money2 :D If anyone has any (not too big) suggestions, speak now or (insert correct phrase here - i don't know how it translates into english ) Guess I'll start on Monday, I expect me to be done by the end of the week. Don't sue me if I don't but I should get it done :D
Move at least 2 of the refs near to the starting rax. Too many games end with no resource income because your starting refs are miles away from your base.
taht were not my starting refs, i planned to make the whole base area a flag that provides resources, the two flags in center were only a test because i wanted to know how to make flags. thinking about what you said, thanks :D
hey flashe I commited your B2 to our svn so you'll have to get in touch with shandy to get the vmf, I would send it to you but I dont know any way of contacting you and im heading to vegas in like 20 min . So GL HF!
i'll leave them - was just talking about what i had in mind - but put them somewhere closer tho ... edit: just because i reread the posts - do you think i should remove the money flags in center and maybe replace it with just spawnpoints? in that case im not going to edit room for raxes to the sides. probably every single one of you has played that map more often than me it would even get more money-like then ...
Actually that sounds like a better idea, move the refs closer to main bases and use the flags as spawnpoints and just put a commander restrict across those areas where raxes fit
I actually prefer the mid flags to be mega-resource nodes. They give each team a substantial reason to contest the middle rather than turtle. I don't think the 'defend the base' mentally that money does is good training for newbs, because most classic maps are not that way. Provinggrounds helps teach the concept of taking and holding territory in a much friendlier way than maps like duststorm or isle. The one suggestion I have is to put the res multiplier value of the mid flags on the minimap, so people know how much they are worth.
I read this thread the other days but im now posting now The map is fine please don't ruin it. It is emp_money where commanding doesn't suck absolute dick, lets leave it at that please.
I like this map. Its not like money, its sortof a real map that just happens to look like the spawn of 2fort. The tunnels don't make it impossible to defend base but they do absolutely require that you either wall them off or constantly have people going through them. The 1-2 times I played it all those tunnels and buildings made for constant skirmishes across the entire map. The games tended to involve tanks fighting to defend base, then chasing attackers through the tunnels, then blasting away infantry, then going to the enemy base and wrecking something, then getting chased back. Overall it was tons of fun, I really hope this thing gets played more often.
i'll try not to break it you still have the chance to suggest things until monday, ill present you a final list then. so take your chance ...
If you make the flags spawns instead of res you won't be able to capture them. Its too easy to defend a flag you spawn at. That's why on maps like district you spawn in the flag before the one you have capped..
Very good point, unless you make multiple flag spots, guess that wouldn't be a good idea. Plus the extra res boost is always good too.
It would be nice to have more strategic value in them middle then just cash. Maybe make it so if you cap both flags you get a spawn in between them in the middle (someplace worth having that you cant just stick in APC in, without particularly easy acces to either flag), plus a smallish res per flag.
