emp_provinggrounds

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by John Shandy`, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. John Shandy`

    John Shandy` Member

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    [​IMG]

    Proving Grounds
    Version: Beta 2
    Originally By: Flasche
    Continued By: John Shandy` & [LoDw]Keef

    Proving Grounds was a mapping endeavor that began with Flasche, who later abandoned it for unknown reasons. Coffeburrito asked us if we were up for continuing it and we obliged.

    It seems as though Flasche's map was an attempt at creating something along the lines of what emp_money aspired to be and never reached. Proving Grounds bears a slight resemblance to a money-esque map, but attempts to be less linear by offering many more paths to choose from when invading enemy territory. It offers many infantry-only areas, while still leaving plenty of paths for vehicles.

    There are four resource nodes on each team's side of the map, with each team having one of them at the start. The flags on the opposite sides of the center are each worth 5 resources per second at this time.

    Before changing much more, we wish to have this map thoroughly play tested to see how gameplay flows. Enjoy!

    SCREENSHOTS
    -Beta 1 & 2

    DOWNLOAD emp_provinggrounds_b2
    -Mirror 1: Sendspace
    -Mirror 2: John Shandy's Blog
    -Mirror 3: Reborn Gamers, Home of the Nachos
    -Mirror 4a - Kane.cx - .zip
    -Mirror 4b - Kane.cx - .tar.bz2
    CHANGELOG
    Beta 2
    ------
    -Added playerclips to two unexpected problem areas.
    -Added more lighting to underground infantry tunnels.
    -Fixed some miscellaneous brushes that weren't touching.
    -Fixed underground ramp brush to the Eastern flag.

    Beta 1
    ------
    Initial Public Release
     
  2. John Shandy`

    John Shandy` Member

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    Reserved.

    [​IMG]
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  3. communism

    communism poof

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    Played a small game of this whenever he just began working on it.
    Very very fun map, pretty much money but it doesn't suck big ass dick
     
  4. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Whilst I've never played it, it looks like emp_gauntlet.


    But it looks like it could be pretty fun.
     
  5. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    I've always wanted a city map :>

    Or...you know..building-ish. Plenty of cover, etc.
     
  6. siro

    siro Member

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    Very nice design, it reminds me on some sourceforts maps. I don't see ladders on the screens, how du you get upstairs ?
     
  7. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

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    On the screenshots there are some ramps visible.

    Can ranged arty shoot from one base to another?
     
  8. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    -remove the tunnels
    -remove dead end plattforms (alot of fancy useless space, in general useless ways and rooms make a map play bad)
    -reduce complexity, map is to big for even a full server (every platform is extra space results in not enough players to fill the whole map)

    -the major problem with the map is that if you hold middle
    you dont have enough players left to defend all the ways into your base.
    Especially because if your team concentrates middle it allows the enemy team
    to attack from alot more ways as if you camp in your base.
    Means the best way to play that map is, turtle in base and wait til ranged arty or nukes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  9. [lodw]keef

    [lodw]keef Hobbit

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    there is a significant resource advantage for holding middle, each middle flag is worth 5 res a tick, where as your total base refs add up to 4 res a tick, so if you dont even try to take middle at all you give your enemy 14 res a tick while you are stuck with 4 res a tick.

    4 res a tick isnt very much at all, if you dont go and contest for middle I dont think you'll last long enough to get arty.

    EDIT: I never saw you in the testing rounds of this map anyway, is this just magical predictions? There is a reason we release for play testing before significant game play overhaul, we find players play maps differently than we would think alot of the time anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  10. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    4res multiplied by the players on your team.
     
  11. John Shandy`

    John Shandy` Member

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    There is not a single map for Empires other than perhaps district402 that is ever filled to its entirety with players. To fill slaughtered or tropicvendetta for example would probably require a couple thousand players standing at arm's length from one another. So "filling the map with players" is not a goal for the development of emp_provinggrounds.

    As for removing the platforms, I'm not sure which you're referring to. They're vantage points, not useless platforms. Players don't have to make use of them if they don't wish to, but I imagine many will.

    As for removing the tunnels, I strongly disagree... it'd be too much like emp_money or emp_crossroads without those additional routes. They can easily be defended, as commanders can spam turrets and armories inside of those corridors to slow down if not stop enemies, and they're useful for getting to the high areas in the center, from which players can bombard the center areas for control over that territory.

    There's not yet any evidence to support this claim. This map hasn't really had any serious rounds played on it yet. I think the size and paths are fine as-is, and only once we've seen some solid game play on this map will we be able to determine what does/doesn't happen - we're not going to judge it on hearsay and guesswork. I definitely think that G4TC will have interesting rounds on this map, especially at peak times when it's nearly full with 64 players. Some areas of the map might even begin to crowd with that many players running around.

    Whoever is holding middle will also likely begin pushing against the enemy main pretty quickly, so the enemy team will need to keep on its toes and balance its defense with its offensive effort to take back the center and turn the pressure back towards the other team's territories. I think it will be interesting. The changes you describe seem way too linear to me... I don't want this map to become another emp_money or emp_crossroads, in all honesty. I don't think Keef does either.
     
  12. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    Tunnels in empires are not used by the majority, look at midbridge.

    Slaugthered is completly filled, with "filled map" I mean that you dont run
    around without seeing an enemys for more than 10 seconds.

    Maps that have 1 or 2 chokepoints are popular cause its "non stop action".

    Yeah I bet you will see half your team camping those platforms with a
    scout rifle or hmg and doing nothing if the enemy tank rushes past them and
    kills the cv :) and cause you cant change human nature you have to change something else...
     
  13. John Shandy`

    John Shandy` Member

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    It's not 4 x the number of players on your team, it's 4 x ________ (an arbitrary multiplier) for every group of 15 players, if I remember correctly.

    Even so, you can't just rely on that or you'll lose. You must contest the center, just to keep running the red queen's race and keep up with the enemy team.

    I foresee riflemen jumping down from those things to sticky vehicles. I don't think you really know what you're talking about, and you haven't even play tested the map.

    I use those midbridge tunnels all the time... maybe you don't, but myself and others do.

    And no, slaughtered is never filled - no Empires map (save for district) is ever filled... filled != constant action. We know how to make a constant action map, just look at tropicvendetta, moors, etc. This map isn't meant to be like those though, and it's not meant to be like emp_crossroads. If players don't use the tunnels, that's not the mapper's problem, it's the players'. Good players in tight situations will use the tunnels to their advantage... you probably won't see it until a team is beginning to get locked into their half of the map, or is getting cornered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  14. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    I think 12 is default, and the multiplier is double.
     
  15. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    Ark has it right.

    Which servers have this map?
     
  16. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I'll put it on g4tc later today. I haven't played it yet but:

    1) I often use the midbridge tunnels.

    2) The default is 12, and for every increase, it increases the multiplier by 1.
    So:
    12=x1
    24=x2
    36=x3
    48=x4
    60=x5

    This counts only BE and NF, not specs/unassigned. So on g4tc, we'll jump between 4 and 5 quite a bit. (It does not go 1,2,4,8,16 etc.).

    3) Even district doesn't get filled with 64, people just use the sewers and side passages.

    4) Overall, Shandy is right.
     
  17. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    1) most people dont use the tunnels, a map that has (important) placed 90%
    of the players dont use isnt well thought out.

    3) District is alot smaller and has only 2 frontlines (sewer and above ground)
    this map has many chokepoints.
     
  18. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    Many choke points = no choke points.

    If a map has more than 2 choke points, it's not a choked up map. Does that make sense?

    Slaughtered, Canyon, Crossroads, Money, Those maps have choke points. This map, for being constricted, is very much an open map. There are 4-5 ways per side to get through, and each are completely separate routes, not directly assaultable from another.


    Also, the platforms make excellent Gren armory points, meaning a grenadier with an armory can rain hell down below into the middle with support fire quite effectively from his vantage point. I think it will be quite a deadly indirect fire map, and the only thing that could make it not awesome would be nukes and artillery :/
     
  19. communism

    communism poof

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    I have always wondered.

    Say BE has 36 people and NF has 34. Does that mean BE is getting 3x res compared to NF getting 2x?
     
  20. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    No, 12 on the server total.
     

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