Discussion in 'Mapping' started by Grantrithor, May 2, 2010.
I just shat myself in fear. Troll mapper is remaking emp_thetrenches D:
I am not a troll, and no I am not recreating emp_thetrenches, I never even knew it existed, and I saw the pictures and no its just not the same. sorry. my map is much different and will be different when finished, because its not all about trench warfare, its about both teams having an amazing economy having this AWESOME battle in the middle of the map and there are things like sandbags and trenches just for cover and stuff.
That sounds a lot like trenches. Excuse me while I go cry in a corner at its revival D:
You can either have a tank battle or an infantry battle but not both, infantry need cover to move anywhere near tanks and tanks need open space to fight properly, unless all your infantry are in trenches it's going to be very dull, and if they are all in trenches it's fighting in a set of corridors and is still going to be very dull.
The tanks can cross the trenches so no problem there are infantry related!
edit: OK I got it, There is not gonna be any trenches in the middle but there is going to be LOTS of infantry cover and there will be a shallow river.
Yes but as I said, if you rely on trenches for your cover the infantry are fighting in corridors, which is what a trench is, and corridors are the least fun thing ever to fight in.
Then the tanks can't move properly, and your tank battles are screwed.
Like I said, one or the other, not both.
Ok then I will scrap the trenches Idea and just have sandbags then.
Unless you can drive over the sandbags and yet not hit the infantry behind them then they will block tanks/not provide infantry cover and you haven't resolved the issue.
It boils down to the fact that to protect from tanks, infantry need to be entirely shielded from them, only popping out when they choose. This requires cover which blocks tank LOS and movement, and they need it every ten feet or so because infantry can't move very fast or very far without getting shot. Cover which blocks tank LOS and movement every ten feet means no large scale tank battles because they on the other hand require open space and lots of free movement.
So, one or the other, not both.
I meant having sand bag areas near the flags. and in the middle things like rocks and depressions provide infantry cover AND tank traps while leaving both vulnerable. Tanks fly over while infantry crouch/prone in it but if a tank slowly moves onto it it gets stuck. Crap that also sounds like a problem.
Low cover like that succumbs to massive shelling very easily, it also doesn't get used unless you provide access to it by placing cover every few feet, because tanks will quickly encircle it and cut it off, and then shell the infantry into oblivion, leaving you no better results than any other classic map.
How about leaving it up to the engineers of the team to make walls? Or is it a blatant fact that the average empires player fails at strategy. I could also do Ikalx idea of making a natural hill in the middle that has 3 infantry sized tunnels that are connected horizontally and tanks can still fight over the hill and around.
one thing you could try doing, set it up so that the bases are closed off completely, and there is a barracks and vf inside. Set up some entities to make them respawn or something.
Make the map a flag capture map with various areas to capture.
make the closest area a large tower outside of either base with a ramp into the the base from the infantry side, with the only access to this building either being the ramp or a door that vehicles cant get into.
Next flags would be various areas of the map where you can capture flags in a way similar to how shadows worked when it was one huge circle.
doing this would change it from a weird reverse money to just a plain fun tank battle with flag capture, but it might be interesting.
But the only way to make this map viable with a combination of tanks and infantry without fucking up the level with boring trenches would be to make the map in a city. That way the tanks are in close quarters, like in streets of fire, but it doesn't completely destroy all tank battle potential.
In the end, I would definitely either remove the com and make bases inaccessable and turn the map into a 5-25 minute ticket bleed map depending on flags capped, or leave it as something like a money map.
In the end, it's your map, do what you want with it.
Leaving it up to players actually works quite well, players do it in most classic maps at the start and it works until tanks are good enough to shell the buildings behind them into oblivion without bothering to attack the defenders, but it is also no different from a classic map.
Any tunnel or corridor that is long and leads to a vital location is going to be fought over because it is a choke point, and it is also very crap to fight in, so you should not use tunnels or corridors as major connecting routes unless they are wide enough to have plenty of lateral movement, essentially being an eloganted room rather than a corridor.
Hmmm I could do that, have no refineries in base, the flags produce resources AND spawn infantry when captured, The way to get out of the bases with vehicles would have to be experimented with. The no mans land could be changed to a city that has lots of open spaces (areas where buildings have been blasted away) to places of infantry cover (areas where broken buildings has debris that infantry hide behind. And a couple of rooftops like cyclopean except that there are connections between them. I can also have a a couple of shallow rivers for doing things like vietnam tactics at points of contention (flags). The flags will be in infantry only locations, but I want to have it so infantry can't camp there so that other infantry can't cap it. Also flags close to walls bleed for the team they are close to, but these flags are easilly defendable and probably in high positions with high LOS.
edit for reading chris's reply before this post: Then that means that it is wrong to have trench like areas across the whole map (like emp_thetrenches) I see your point. I can have points that players would really love to have(such as a flag that produces LOTS of resources or a hill with a spawn that gives a lot of good offense or a bunker that gives lots of defense) and around it I will put small depressions, broken walls that are only useful for proneing(not crouching) but not too much that the teams can use it as defense, only points of reference so that engineers can place walls nearby.
havent read all but
DO NOT MAKE GROUND OUT OF BRUSHES!!!
USE DISPLACMENTS RAEG
I HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE POINT OF DEVELOPING THE GEOMETRY I AM ON THE POINT OF DEVELOPING THE STYLE OF PLAY!
u dont believe that yourself do you?
don't believe what?
You should do displacements early and build the mapa round them. They're not that hard, they dont slow rendering a huge amount and they're basically the difference between an acceptable map and a terrible one.
Kinda hard to do playstyle without geometry, looks impact gameplay considerably.
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