emp_bridgetoofar

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by Wereaser, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    Some time ago I was playing emp_escort as NF engineer. A thought popped into my mind while HE arty shells came whistling from the sky killing half of our team in the third flag spawn(just after spawning). I still don't know how the hell the arty rapist managed to smuggle that shell into our spawn, but here's the idea:
    A Push type of map like Escort, but with switched sides and a different environment.

    Here's a very quick layout I did today. I did it in .SVG format so making changes is easy as hell. Thus give out your suggestions and feel free to draw over the picture. :D

    [​IMG]

    And don't worry, I won't go on with making this until the layout plan is sound. ;)
     
  2. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    Heh. A bridge too far, huh? There's a classic for ya.

    It's kinda hard to make out what's what, though. Color in the water, cliffs, and ground. I'm kinda of unsure of how it will play out having a direct line of sight between certain flags... Might result in some crappy situations where the BE team would be sniping the NF team as they try to cap the flag, or a big spawnkilling brawl.
     
  3. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    Goddammit. :D I forgot the alpha on while exporting it into .png.

    Dumpster: 1995 :) I liked that game. Which one you would prefer, walls or cliffs(to prevent the line of sight problem)?

    I've done some changes already, but I think I'll wait for a bit more feedback before posting an update. :) This one is probably the quickest layout I've drawn during the 7 years of HL mapping I've got under my belt. :D

    So for the next version: Changes to the cliffs, color coding and a fix for that direct line of sight problem.
     
  4. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    I dunno... Either walls or cliffs would be a quick fix, but I think that tweaking the layout entirely would be a more solid solution. Stretch it out a little more, like the flag before the last bridge, maybe? And if the spawn points were sheltered, perhaps in little bunkers inset in the cliff walls... That could also help with the problem.
     
  5. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    Here's an updated layout with some of the fixes you suggested dumpster_fox.
    Gah, shouldn't have used that darned gif packaging. Urgh.
    Again people fire your shots. Look at problempoints and speak up!
    [​IMG]

    Flags will be within bunkers or other fortifications to promote infantry combat around them and prevent people from just driving next to the flag with an apc full of people.
     
  6. Mydarbin

    Mydarbin Member

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    looks simple. Thats not a bad thing. Consider adding infantry shortcuts from flag 1-4, and 8-5. also maybe beach areas infantry can go on from 3-5 and 4-6. What you have now is good too. It all depends on what kind of strategies you want to promote.
     
  7. Grizzly

    Grizzly BEAR SIZED DOORS

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    looks like a nice push map, get to work! :)

    just be carefull with all that water
     
  8. cpugeek

    cpugeek Member

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    well, as the last post said, its a bit linear. that wouldn't neccesarily be a bad thing if there weren't automated turrets in empires. But you have to look at emp_district as an example of a map that is ruined by its simplicity and straightforwardness. It would be nice if you could use the water to full advantage and make it so infantry can swim from point to point. Also, and this is kinda stretching it (but i think it would be cool), but some underwater caves or tunnels so that you can access their points not only overland but also underwater. Also, The bridges will be huge chokepoints, so make sure theres plenty of cover near them. It might be cool too if as you get inland further, the Be bases get larger and more urbanesque.
     
  9. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    Keep in mind that static props can mean a world of difference. Scatter some boulders and trees to use as cover, and the effectiveness of turret farming will be decreased.

    Will both sides be able to field vehicles in this? That could be pretty cool were it handled correctly.
     
  10. Exo2000

    Exo2000 Member

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    Agreed.

    Riddle those cliffs with some cave-tunnel systems. That way you'll have to cover your arse as well as your front, and it means the attacking NF have a chance of moving forward.

    I don't see artywhoring being a big problem here so long as there is plenty of cover (bunkers) and such for infantry (some semi-submerged bunkers with narrow firing windows (too small for Grenadier RL) for HMG-using Riflemen would be really themic too. Having to move vehicles up so you can move on - if anything APCs would be pivotal.

    Also, you could make a TFFA version, simply remove all flags or make a flag in each base. Hefty amount of tickets and no lowering, and viola, nice long battle for the canyon/river system. :D

    EDIT: Something else I just thought of; artywhoring on bases. Cut out arty if the terrain is going to make this possible (some really high cliffs will be good enough to stop it though)

    Another idea; make all bridges 'destroyed' at game start (to prevent rushing, especially in 3-phase engine jeeps - bloody fast things), and make them like the BE bridges on Escort, except that both sides can build them. This might be a bit much, but it means that, tactically, bridges can be destroyed to slow vehicle access (encouraging use of the tunnels to take out any bridge-builder snipers) and rebuilt to allow passage of your own vehicles. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  11. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    My initial idea was to make the bridges destroyable and re-buildable. I'm currectly ironing out the basic layout(and reading your ideas) and then I'm going to do the first heightmap see where it goes(to get the scale right and so on).

    Is there a way to make only certain research categories done? For example removing nukes might help balancing. I've been thinking about making some sort of tunnels from flag 4 to 1 and 5 to 7 that would have doors that can only be opened from the BE side(flag 4 and flag 7). This would speed up the later game allowing NF to get their vehicles faster to the front. Any thoughts on this?
     
  12. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    If you do decide to have tunnels in the cliffs, make sure that engineers can't build turrets in them. That would suck.

    Also, concerning the destroyable bridges, would it be too much to ask to have rubble appear when they're destroyed? It doesn't even have to be a physics object, just a toggleable model of collapsed concrete; Half-Life 2 has plenty of those (that's not to say physics objects wouldn't be preferable - having the bridge fracture and fall in upon itself would be pretty damn pwn).
     
  13. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    I've begun working on the heightmap and done some initial scale tests. As for now some of the passages seem too small. I wanted it tight, but not this tight. :) And it seems that the ground is a bit too high and the transition to hills is in some areas too steep(there's a bit of smooth transition there, but I think it got lost in the resizing process). I'm currently working towards swimmable water and shallow slopes on beaches to promote infatry wombat. Of course some routes should be blocked from these swimmers... perhaps with some shark/piranha models swimming in circles and a couple of trigger_hurts(or whatever it's in Source). ;)

    Next on todo list:
    *Making the passages less tight.
    *Smoothing out the heightmap.
    *Playing the just released 1.06 for an hour or two or more...
    *Generating the heightmap and see if it look better.

    Here's the rough heightmap for paintover and c&c purposes(original in 2048x2048 .xcf image):
    [​IMG]

    And dumpster_fox: Don't worry about these minor features yet. :) I'll see what I can do when the time comes. If the resources permit I might add something "kewl" when the bridges blow. But that's for later. Now I want the basic layout working ingame.
     
  14. yodan

    yodan Member

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    are you dead if you go swimming? if yes:
    the map is toooooo linear. there shut be more then one way to a flag. (min. 2 ways)
    else the game play on this map will be VERY frustrating.
    Maybe add some tunnels for soldiers.
     
  15. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    I believe func_waterydeath is the entity you're looking for. :D
     
  16. Artemas Ward

    Artemas Ward Member

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    If the bridges can be destroyed, then make beaches that infantry can swim to. So even if vehicles are halted, not ALL progress is.
     
  17. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    Artemas, that was my initial thought. :) Beaches and naked women and... errr. I mean swimming and stuff... :D I'm curretly fiddling around with the alphamaps and inserting nodraws in various places. I'm also thinking about making more infantry routes, but I'll add those once I get something compiled.
     
  18. Wereaser

    Wereaser Member

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    A small update to show you that I'm still working on this one. :)
    [​IMG]
    And something to show you the scale of things:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2006
  19. Darg

    Darg Member

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    You could try increasing the width and length of the map but keeping the height the same. Or if you want to go back at this stage I'd recommend passing your height back through terragen and giving it some glaciation or erosion effect and then export it back into hammer.
     

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