ELC balance scripts changelog

I'm too lazy to make an abridged version, so here's the complete version.

I think I did a few more things for revision 4, I just can't remember them right now. I'll check a few key values in the scripts and update if there was anything I forgot.

 

Took me about 15 min

Edit: Also, comparison of Trickster's and Pickle's scripts

 

I like where you're going with the scripts pickled.

 

Trickster, pickled_heretic:

These server side scripts are a very good way to finally balance this game.
But can you add a little more organization like version numbers for the scripts (or will you use the revision number?). Also the server should have tags in their name, when they using the scripts (best with version number).
I already posted this also on ELC forum.

And here some tables:

Original armor_weapon table:


Updated (revision 4) armor_weapon table:

 

Link to pickled's 2.24d rebalanced pack: http://code.google.com/p/empires-scripts/source/browse/#svn/trunk/packs/2.24d rebalance

When he gets them finalized I'll post a straight download.

 

pickled_heretic:
Will there be new revisions?

I think that you made composite armor even more useless by removing the 15% damage reduction.
Composite is expensive and if you research it first you are far away from any good weapons.
Also it now will totally suck for small tanks (look at the plates killed by one shot by std. cannon)

Therefore I would like to see 110-120 health for composite armor.

And in general don't forget to have also a look on the speed to damage multipliers.
With the current values projectiles with speed of 3000 will do 15 extra damage to composite and 12 less damage to reactive.

 

In the grand scheme of things, a difference of 27 damage (i.e. a quarter of a plate) when reactive is heavier, isn't exactly an issue.

I do agree maybe composite was overnerfed, but the damage modifier should be removed entirely, and changed back to just using HP. It's unnecessarily complicated.

The inherent problem with composite is where it is in the research tree, something we cannot fix.

 

Removing the speed to damage modifier will be difficult, because it will change the character of some armors.

But I tried it and so I removed the Speed to Damage modifier from all weapons beside Composite and Absorbent. Absorbent should keep low health but a high modifier and composite should be the better opposite of it.

Changes:
Plain:
Health 40 (was 43.3)
Angle modifier 0 (was 0.1)
Speed to Damage 0 (was 0.008)

Composite:
Health 120 (was 90)

Reactive:
Health 105 (was 99)
Speed to Damage 0 (was -0.004)

Reflective:
Health 75 (was 70)
Speed to Damage 0 (was -0.001)

Regenerative:
Speed to Damage 0 (was 0.003)

New armor weapon table :


Link to .xls and .xlsx files to make changes by yourself: http://www.pfffr.de/armor_weapon2.24.zip

Then every commander should only know these rules:
-Plain: sucks but cheap and for free
-Composite: best all round armor but expensive and long research time. Average against fast projectiles
-Reactive: Best small tank armor but will be to heavy for bigger tanks
-Reflective: Average armor but good place in research path
-Regen: Good armor but no heavy tank weapons in research path
-Absorbent: Cheap and best against fast projectiles. Average because of low health

 

I said remove the damage modifier. Not the speed modifier.

 

Can't touch prices. It's a non-discrete value.

 

I'm all for getting rid of all damage/speed modifiers. Its adds needless complexity. Instead I see about 5 things you can change to balance the armors

1. HP
2. Weight
3. Price
4. Research Time/Price
5. Reflect Modifier

I say make each armor really good at one of these and poor for the rest. So it could go something like this:
Regen = Quick Research Time/Low Research Price
Reactive = High HP
Composite = Low Weight
Absorbant = Low Price
Reflective = High Reflect Mod

 

I'm not open to propositions to make composite weaker than reactive.

Reactive under the current system is 99 hp, 20 weight, and 20 cost per plate.

Composite is 90 hp, 10 weight, and 25 cost per plate.

Reactive has to be stronger than composite per plate in order for it to be worth ever using, or the electrical tree has to be sufficiently awesome to outweigh the crappiness of reactive. In 2.24, neither was true.

Also, the reflect mod is broken. If I could, I would remove it, as well as reflective armor from the game. Here's to hoping that 2.25 will fix the reflect mod.

You also mentioned that composite is in a bad place or in a bad tree. This is opposite from the truth. Mechanical is a tree you're always going to go into no matter what. An armor or an engine located in mechanical is a freebie engine or armor because you're always going to be right next to it at some point in the game no matter what other research you go to. That is partly why I disagree with trickster's gas turbine change as well as any buff to composite.

Edit: I 100% agree that armor needs to be weaker on average, and that's the direction I'm taking these scripts in. You can see that other than reactive and absorbant, all armors in my scripts are weaker overall. I am just hesitant about large global changes in this environment. I'm not trying to reinvent 2.24, I just want to see underutilized things get more mileage.

 

Except gas turbine is not useful and going composite is a subtle form of griefing. The fact that people mostly research other engines and armor despite gas turbine and composite being in mechanical is a strong argument for changing its values IMO.

 

The fact that gas-turbine and composite are two choices you rarely want to make is the balance for them being the easiest to get to.

--Or you could say that the other way around. The fact that they are the easiest to get to is the balance for them being choices that you otherwise wouldn't want to make.

That argument isn't as powerful for composite as it is for gas-turbine, because speed and cost are almost never adequate reason to get composite, but composite still has its uses, and I don't personally think composite is so far off the mark that pickles scripts need to fix it. I kinda' view pickles scripts as a way of fixing REALLY obvious problems, which they have done quite well. I see the problems with composite as minor compared to many of the other things that have been fixed.

 

gas turbine is not useful? rofl. Better cooling abilities than fission, moderate speed, and a convenient location make it my 2nd most researched engine (after fission, and this will change with the new scripts... It will probably become my #1 engine).

As long as I can't change the cost, composite is going to remain where it is as far as balance. Because it is in mechanical, it needs to have significant drawbacks in order to balance its convenience.

 

Gas turbine sucks... It's like a buffed version of standard... It just doesn't offer anything "special" (fission, 3 phase and adv coolant do).

 

That's why it's quick and also in a *must get* research tree.

And yes, it works fine unless I want my guys zooming across the map because it's wide open.

 

Gas turbine has the most of whatever makes it easier for a vehicle to climb hills (torque I believe, I don't know a lot about mechanics) .Yes it's a little on the slow side, but when a hill says slow, it screams fuck you :D

 

Hardly. Its the same cooling as fission when idle and only one better when not. Gas turbine is the jack of all trades, but master of none. That may be good enough when you are comming, but I prefer my team to have the advantage.