I have designed an entire tech tree around the concepts of diversification of technology. First some notes: Code: Tech Tree Time Cost Tier1: 45 300 Tier2: 90 600 Tier3: 180 1200 Specific Techs 25 300 Note: Costs for tanks will be different (cheaper, see later) Note: Resource scaling cannot be as extreme as it is currently. Will need to be approximately 20% increase per 10 players. Medium tanks all have +1 cooling Heavy tanks all have +2 cooling All turrets are start at MKII when built by commanders. MG turrets now have 75% health (and thusly reduced build time) and cost 75 ML turrets now have 300% health (and thusly hugely increased build time) and cost 300 Part1: the Tech Trees Code: Physics Tier1: Ballistics Tier2 Improved MG turret Tier2: Plasma Weapons Reflective Armor Tier 3 Tier3: Fusion Weapons Fission Engine Code: Chemistry Improved Explosives Absorbent Armor Tier2 Stable Explosives Coolant Engine Tier3 Improved Building Materials Unstable explosives Code: Electrical Reactive Armor Computer Ignition Tier2 3-Phase Engine Computer Guidance Tier3 Improved ML turret Electromagnetic Propulsion Code: Mechanical Tier1: Light Weapons Gas Turbine Tier2 Tier2: Micro-Weapons Vehicle Design Tier3 Tier3: Composite Weapons Composite Armor Vehicle Design MKII Light Tanks Medium Tanks Artillery Heavy Tanks Tier1 Cost Tier2 Cost Tier2 Cost Tier3 Cost MIII Light Tanks MKII Mediums MKII Artillery Alternative Designs Tier3 Cost Tier3 Cost Tier3 Cost Tier2 Cost Code: Biology Human Enhancement Bio-diesel Engine Tier2 Regenerative Armor Resilient Cultures Tier3 Human Enhancement II Gaseous Cultures Human Enhancement Effects Stack Tier 1 Time ½ cost Improved AT +15 Damage Improved Fitness +5% Speed Improved Health +10 Health Tier 2 Time ½ cost Improved AT II +20 Damage Improved Fitness II +10% Speed Improved Health II +15 Health Tier 3 Time ½ cost Improved AT III +25 Damage Improved Fitness III +15% Speed Improved Health III +25 Health % boost to all AT weapons Human Enhancement II Effects do not Stack Tier 1 Time ½ cost Regeneration 2 HP/Sec Resilience -25% explosion dmg Leadership 1.5x squad points Tier 2 Time ½ cost Regeneration II 5 HP/Sec Resilience II -50% explosion dmg Leadership II 2x squad points Tier 3 Time ½ cost Regeneration III9 HP/Sec Resilience III -75% explosion dmg Leadership III 3x squad points Next: Specifics - Weapons armor and engines.
Weapons Armor and Engines Code: Physics Damage Cycle Time Heat/Shot Ammo Weight Accuracy Special Reload Velocity Blast Radius Slots Catagory Cost Ranged Cannon 100 2.25 20 40 60 ¼ Gravity 3300 100 2 CN 130 ER Artillery 140 1.5 20 8/6 100 Perfect 2200 600 2 Art 55 50-Cal MG 80 0.2 4 40/3 40 Poor 100000 1 2 MG 80 DU MG 20 0.4 4 40/2 50 Poor Anti-tank 100000 1 2 MG 80 Tier2 Plasma Cannon 160 3.25 60 25 65 +45 Heat 3000 50 2 CN 145 Plasma Lance 40 0.5 30 2/4 30 +35 Heat 6 sec 4800 50 1 ML 45 Plasma MG 2 0.2 10 30/3 40 Excellent +9 Heat 3 sec 50 2 MG 55 Tier3 Microfusion Missile 300 1 60 1/5 40 5 sec 2000 200 3 ML 90 Microfusion Grenade 1000 5 30 3/3 50 Wall-Killer 10 sec 500 300 1 Gren 50 Chemistry Damage Cycle Time Heat/Shot Ammo Weight Accuracy Special Reload Velocity Blast Radius Slots category Cost UML 80 1 15 6*/5 80 4 Seconds 2000 300 2 ML 130 Solvent Sprayer 10 0.1 4 20/5 80 ok Anti-wall 5 sec 100 50 3 MG 50 Upg Grenade 110 1.5 15 12/3* 55 10 seconds 900 400 2 Gren 100 Tier2 HE Cannon 120 2 20 25 70 3000 500 2 CN 180 HE MG 20 0.5 8 20/6 70 Anti-tank 5 sec 100000 150 2 MG 200 HE Arty 160 2 20 8 100 4 Seconds 1500 1000 2 Arty 140 Tier3 Unstable Grenade 110 .2 Burst 25 3/5 80 Higher Grav/Poor 1100 900 3 Gren 150 Siege Cannon 60 1.5 16 20 65 Full-Grav 3000 800 2 CN 200 FaceMelter 50 1 10 3/6* 70 3 sec 900 1100 2 ML 70 Electrical Damage Cycle Time Heat/Shot Ammo Weight Accuracy Special Reload Velocity Blast Radius Slots category Cost Burst Cannon 30 .1 Burst 8 3/9 50 3400 300 2 CN 100 Electronic MG 8 0.05 0.5 200 50 Perfectish 10 Sec 10000 1 1 MG 90 Burst Artillery 50 .2 Burst 10 3/6 60 Ok 1 2000 50 2 Art 60 Tier2 Exp Homing ML 100 1 20 4/6 70 Awesome Home 4 Sec 2500 300 3 ML 65 Exp Guided ML 80 1 20 4/5 70 Awesome Guide 4 Sec 2500 300 3 ML 65 Guided ML 80 0.9 20 4/7 50 Ok Guide 3 sec 2000 250 2 ML 70 Homing ML 70 0.75 20 4/8 50 Quick Home 3 sec 2000 250 2 ML 70 Tier3 TAG Missile 30 1 30 1/8 110 Excel Homing +80 Heat 9 Sec 2000 50 1 ML 50 Railgun 80 0.8 25 40 70 3600 200 3 CN 200 Mag-Artillery 200 1 15 6/10 120 Perfect High-Grav 3 sec 3000 200 2 Art 90 Mechanical Damage Cycle Time Heat/Shot Ammo Weight Accuracy Special Reload Velocity Blast Radius Slots category Cost Light Cannon 40 1.4 10 30 40 3000 300 1 CN 80 Light Missile 40 1.1 10 4/6 20 4 sec 1600 300 1 ML 40 Spark Grenades 20 1 20 4/8 30 +10 Heat 4 Sec 800 400 2 Gren 40 Tier2 Micro-Cannon 50 1.3 11 15 35 2800 350 1 CN 90 Micro-Missile 60 1 15 2/5 15 2 sec 1700 350 1 ML 50 Micro-Artillery 100 1 10 2/4 40 1 sec 1400 500 1 Art 50 Tier3 Pneumatic Lance 200 4 10 2/5 85 Perfect 5 seconds 1 3 MG 200 Biology Damage Cycle Time Heat/Shot Ammo Weight Accuracy Special Reload Velocity Blast Radius Slots Cat Bio Cost Infantry Upgrade begin Tier2 Corrosive Cannon 20 1.5 10 30 40 Anti-wall 2400 75 1 CN 5dps/60s 80 BioMG 5 0.2 1 60/3 50 10000 75 2 MG 5dps/20s 80 Acid Grenades 5 1 5 5/10* 60 Quick-burst 500 200 3 GL 25dps/6s 100 Tier3 BioML 10 3 20 3/4 65 3 sec 1800 500 2 ML 7dps/80s 120 BioArtillery 20 1 5 8/6 100 4 Sec 2000 1800 2 Art 5dps/90s 120 Plague MG 10 0.5 10 20/5 90 Good Anti-infantry 6 sec 10000 500 3 MG 4dps/40s 160 Code: Armor Weight Armor Cost Special Normal 10 40 5 No Absorbent 5 40 6 Speed to damage -0.009 Reactive 20 80 10 Damage to heat .25 Reflective 12 60 10 1 Angle modifier Regenerative 8 50 8 .1 Regeneration Rate Composite 10 80 12 .25 Angle, .0001 Spd2Dmg
Engines Code: Engine Jeep Speed Apc Speed Light Speed Med Speed Hvy Speed Art Speed Cooling Stall Temp Jeep Hrspw APC Hrspw Light Hrspw Med Hrspw Hvy Hrspw Normal 40 32 37 33 30 27 4/2* 1 400 900 2000 2500 3000 Gas 57 45 55 47 43 39 6/4* 1 866 1950 4300 5400 6500 Bio 53 40 50 44 40 36 6/4* 2 1050 2400 5300 6700 8000 Coolant 45 35 45 39 35 32 8/6* 2 1333 3000 6600 8300 10000 3-Phase 75 60 68 61 55 50 6/4* 0.4 400 900 2000 2500 3000 Fission 67 55 62 55 50 45 7/3* 0.9 933 2100 4700 4800 7000 Idle/Driving
Tanks Code: BE Base cost Cannon Slots MG slots ML Slots GL Slots Weight Cap Armor Plates Low Cost Medium Cost High Cost Low Cost Medium Cost High Cost Average Cost Jeep 35 0 0 0 0 30 0 0 0 0 35 35 35 35 APC 100 0 3 0 3 240 3 167 301.23 325.23 267 401.23 425.23 364.49 AFV 50 1 1 1 0 320 3 103.67 355.38 442.15 153.67 405.38 492.15 350.4 AFV II 50 2 1 1 0 320 3 135.33 386.77 473.54 185.33 436.77 523.54 381.88 AFV III 50 3 1 1 0 320 3 167 418.15 504.92 217 468.15 554.92 413.36 Medium 75 2 2 2 0 340 4 159.33 411.08 502.15 234.33 486.08 577.15 432.52 Medium II 75 2 3 2 0 380 4 191 411.08 502.15 266 486.08 577.15 443.08 Heavy 200 2x3 2 3 0 470 6 334 617.08 744.46 534 817.08 944.46 765.18 Alt Heavy 100 4 2 0 3 450 5 246.67 594.62 717.69 346.67 694.62 817.69 619.66 Code: NF Base cost Cannon Slots MG slots ML Slots GL Slots Weight Cap Armor Plates Low Cost Medium Cost High Cost Low Cost Medium Cost High Cost Average Cost Jeep 35 0 0 0 0 30 0 0 0 0 35 35 35 35 APC 100 0 3 0 3 240 3 167 301.23 325.23 267 401.23 425.23 364.49 LT 50 1 1 1 0 270 2 79.67 294.62 367.85 129.67 344.62 417.85 297.38 LT II 50 1 2 1 0 270 2 111.33 323.23 396.46 161.33 373.23 446.46 327.01 LT III 50 1 3 1 0 270 2 143 351.85 425.08 193 401.85 475.08 356.64 Medium 75 2 2 2 0 340 4 159.33 411.08 502.15 234.33 486.08 577.15 432.52 Medium II 75 2 2 2 2 380 4 159.33 411.08 502.15 234.33 486.08 577.15 432.52 Heavy 200 3 2 2x3 0 470 6 334 617.08 744.46 534 817.08 944.46 765.18 Alt Heavy 250 0 2+3 3 0 470 8 287 603.54 727.23 537 853.54 977.23 789.26
Finally turrets Code: Turrets:Commander Turrets begin at MKII Missile MG Cost 300 75 Health 300 75 Current Health 100 100 Stat Build HP 25 5 MKI Damage 60 3 MKII Damage 120 4 MKIII Damage 180 5 Cycle Time 2 0.075 - 13 shots per sec MIII Research Tier 3 EE Tier 1 Physics *Range Progression as current Improved Building Materials: 75% Building cost +50% Max Health +50% Max Health bonus to start-health Alternately 50% Building Cost
What Robotek's idea is, to essentially make single tech path's inefficient, forcing players to diversify. This would in turn lead to more interesting matches, and settle conflict with the current tech system. Example, a tech path has heavy weapons, but they generate a lot of heat. In turn, the engine in that path wouldn't dissipate heat that well. That is the most basic example, however robotek can better explain as people begin to ask questions.
I'm a bit confused on how the research path is organized. Could you put one of the trees in this layout as an example? Code: Physics | --------------------------------- | | | Research1 Research2 Research3
Dear Mr. Robotek, I very much like to play with superlights. How would I research them in your tech tree, and is it still worthwhile to research them? Thanks very much, Demented
Why yes, but superlights will take somewhat longer to research than before. We apologize for the inconvenience.* * I actually have no idea if superlights are still researchable
Bob, I was going to do that but it was incredibly painful when I tried, I will give it another go though, just for you. Demented: There are a few ways, but I will give a basic example EE: 45 seconds 300 res Reactive Armor: 25 seconds 300 res Tier 2 EE: 90 seconds, 600 res 3-Phase: 25 seconds, 300 res <- Super Lights kinda here (3 minutes, 1500 res) Mech1: 45 seconds 300 res Mech2: 90 seconds, 600 res MicroWeapons: 25 seconds, 300 res <- Ultra Lights Here (Nearly 6 minutes, 2700 res) Vehicle Design: 25 seconds, 300 res Light Tank II: 45 seconds, 300 res <- Super-Ultra Lights here (7 minutes, 3300 res) Computer Guidance: 25 seconds, 300 res <- Mega Lights here (7 minutes 30 sec, 3600 res) Light Tank III: 180 seconds, 1200 res <- Ultra Mega Lights here (10 minutes 30 sec, 4800 res) Mechanical III: 180 seconds, 1200 res Composite Armor: 25 seconds, 300 res<-Super Ultra Mega Lights here (14 minutes, 6300 res) That is the realistic progression for the most reliable super-lights possible, in theory you could go for physics, but they would take alot longer before they started being useful, but have nukes at the end.
Code: Tier1(catagory name)=45s 300$ Tier2=90s, 600$ Tier3=180s, 1200$ Other Items= 25s 300$ unless otherwise specified Physics | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons1 Tier2 MG Turret MKII | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons2 Tier3 Reflective Armor | ---------------- | | Weapons3 Fission Engine Chemistry | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons1 Tier2 Absorbent Armor | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons2 Tier3 Coolant Engine | ---------------- | | Weapons3 Improved Building Materials Electrical | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons1 Tier2 Reactive Armor | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons2 Tier3 3-Phase | ---------------- | | Weapons3 MG Turret MKIII Mechanical | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons1 Tier2 Gas Turbine | --------------------------------- | | | Weapons2 Tier3 Vehicle Design-------------------------------------- | 45s|300$ 90s|600$ 180s|1200$ ---------------- LT MKII Medium Heavy | | 180s|1200$ 180s|1200$ 90s|600$ Weapons3 Composite Armor LT MKIII Medium MKII Alt Heavy Biology | --------------------------------- | | | Bio-Deisel Tier2 Infantry1---------------------------------------- | | | | --------------------------------- Health AT Damage Speed 45s 150$ | | | | | | Weapons2 Tier3 Regenerative Armor HealthII AT DamageII SpeedII 90s 300$ | | | | ---------------- HealthIII AT DamageIII SpeedIII 120s 600$ | | Weapons3 Infantry2 | --------------------------------- | | | Regeneration Exp Resist Leadership 45s 150$ | | | RegenerationII Exp ResistII LeadershipII 90s 300$ | | | RegenerationIII Exp ResistIII LeadershipIII 120s 600$
I don't know yet whether to agree or disagree with this, uh, design, but I will say that the "Vehicle Design" and "Human Enhancement" trees feel tacked-on to the Mechanical and Biological trees. Is there any reason they cannot be separate trees of their own, in addition to the current 5 base trees?
... ...... ......... ............ ............... ............ ......... ...... ... Why is Robo not a dev?
Because he just did some legwork. He wouldn't become a dev unless people decide that what he has done is good and accept that he can do more good ideas. As for ontopic...I applaud what you're doing, but my brain doesn't seem to be in the mood to assimilate new data, so i'll come back later and provide feedback. I was thinking we'd all get to making a tree eventually, but stupidly, I figured we'd all get there...which never works. One person always has to come up with a reworked tree for anything to happen. Of course, it doesn't always go anywhere...as with Drag's complete rehaul.
This really isn't much work from my perspective, designing and balancing this is literally something I do when bored. Weapons are categorized and balanced based on initial damage (physics) efficiency by heat (chem) efficiency by weight (mech), maximum damage per second (EE), and maximum total damage (bio). Both bio and mechanical are mostly about infantry and vehicle upgrades, but have accompanying weapons that are less meaningful with their respective vehicle/infantry upgrades. Light weapons aren't useful for heavy tanks, and bio's better anti-infantry isn't as useful when your own infantry is awesome. Both represent both means of advancement, and cover every spread of cost/time investment. Vehicle achieved at tier2 mech, infantry and 1 and 3 bio. Infantry upgrades are very cheap at first and must be scaled up individually, but stack - better vehicles are chosen a la carte and are individually often very expensive to get. I wanted to cover every form of strategic decision players might want while keeping empires in its current overall themes. I hated drag's scripts because they removed most the strategic elements and boiled down to trying to climb a specific path as fast as possible. With this version, every path is poor when isolated, but can gain alot when you interlink them. (physics has poor overall efficiency, chem weighs too much and its cooling isn't necessary, EE generates alot of heat together, and its armor generates more heat when hit, and its engine responds poorly to heat, you could fill a vehicle with mechanical weapons, but they won't amount to much, and bio doesn't stack with itself and is weak against itself.) Meanwhile when and in what way you link the paths is an important strategic decision, as there IS a progression where you become gradually better by sticking to the same path.
Yeah, I used to create RPG systems and things like that...but what really defeats me about making an Empires system is that I always feel the need to create the weapons, rather than just a placeholder tree. And I want to make the "best" tree, which of course will never exist. Yes, I didn't really like Drag's system either, however, it was shot down without refinement and pretty quickly that... Well, I guess your system built on our current has more chance. It does sound good the way you spin it though *crosses fingers*.
Man, at first I turned up my nose at yet another stab at the tech tree, but I've come around. The amount of legwork you've done is fantastic, and it looks to me like some number-tweaking and script-writing away from being seriously functional. It brings Empires gameplay in line with a more classical RTS tech tree, which could make for some really, really interesting matches.
I guess the first step is making scripts and testing them. I volunteered to make them, but I'm busy with real life and am going really slowly...Im also deciding if I want to make scripts for 2.24 or 2.25 D:
Either way, I should have the basic scripts up by the end of the week. I am aware that vehicles are, for the most part, significantly more fragile and slightly more powerful. It is a fairly simple matter to universally scale armor health if more survivability is desired and scale weight if different amounts of equipment capacity are desired.
Ludicrous "Human Enchancement" techs aside, the first thing I'd test is whether you get light tanks to run with... what... 68 speed + scout speed upgrade. There is a reason the current lights are capped at 50 you know, you better get some help from that guy that did some legwork on the vehicle physics scripts or change the numbers to a level that doesn't force tears into my eyes.