I wrote this thread once, hit submit new thread and my browser crashed. it was literally the longest thread I have ever written and it got deleted. Here is round 2. I've thought of a simple solution to a lot of district's problems. Problems Identified: -Only middle third of map played [because once a team captures the enemies flag nearest the middle, the bleed starts and they can just stalemate the map for the win] -Only reason not to attack is to conserve tickets. This is really boring for everyone -Ticket Attrition gameplay - obviously bad -All leading to: attacking can actually be bad for your team. -bad players can screw the team by draining tickets -no significant advantage to your team for killing enemy, the average enemy presence is rarely significantly effected for long -have to fight the guy you just killed 10 seconds later after you've moved only 10 yards to the next piece of cover -the battle lines are so thick and well defined, that any push into enemy territory is immidiately 5v1. -sewers are bad. this is entirely artificially due to the ticket drain. -no phases. The final point is the most important. Phases in any game or sport are where the goal of each player shifts, offering them emotional spikes, highs and lows, to make the game more enjoyable. In a team based FPS, that might mean "assaulting", "holding position, watching an area" and "retreating to stay alive". Significantly it's not an individual action, but when the whole team gets the message to act in the same way. In empires especially, there is no emotional effect from moving from one piece of cover to another when neccessary, but doing the same thing with a group of people - all assaulting or falling back - will generate a good response. Clans and teams with really great communication will sometimes do this automatically, but give everyone this feeling, it needs to be incorperated into the game. A good example of this is the Uber in TF2, which gives the attacking team a time to rally and push, and the defending team just worries about staying alive. Current District, on the other hand, has fairly flat gameplay. it's always the same, and thus does not emotionally effect people -> boring. Another important problem is that the game has is that there is no reward for killing a couple of the enemy team, and no real reason to stay alive besides not wanting your team's tickets to decrease, which is a highly artificial reason. Experienced players will probably tell you that you should always be either sprinting towards the next flag or shooting someone. There's nothing else to do. Ignoring tickets, there's no advantage to your team for killing the enemy or distadvantage to your team to keeping them alive. Proposed solution. Firstly, we remove tickets. These bring with them a host of problems and are a really artificial way of forcing people to behave in certain ways. Artificial as in- it's not tactical or logical to behave in that way, you just do it so that that number your team has doesn't go down. Add a time limit if neccessary. Secondly, and importantly. The respawn time is increased to 30 seconds. In CS, you can expect to wait 3 minutes before you get to fight again, in TF2 it is be 20 - 30 seconds depending on the distance you have to travel. Empires is currently 10 seconds. I actually propose making the respawn only 25 seconds, but the respawn positions should be moved back. People get less rage when running for 5 seconds than waiting, dead, for 5 seconds, and it also means that sneaking past and behind the flag isn't a pointless deathtrap because people are constantly spawning This has many good benefits. -You care about your life -Killing an enemy is a significant reward -A proper, tactical use for revive- not just to stop someone respawning 20feet away which they should be doing -Far better for new players to understand and not to screw over their teams, than learning how not to burn through tickets -Bad players screw themselves, not the team -Moving spawn back means area behind enemy's most forward flag is usable instead of deathtrap -Teams are thinned, instead of being one massive clusterfuck -Sewers are usable again -Importantly: Phases are introduced. Because death is for a longer period, it's far more probable that a team will go down a significant amount of players. in this diagram, "phase change" means that the inbalance i deficit of players on one team changes the way the players have to play. The defending team has to preserve their lives and play defensively until reinforcements arrive, or they will lose their flag. The attacking team has an opportunity to push. All of this without any need for good communication in the team, like a TF2 uber. Even if you don't agree with the solution, do you agree with the problem?
I can see where you're coming from, but it will just replace 'Don't attack because we'll waste tickets' with 'Don't attack because you'll be dead for 30 seconds' It works in TF2 because the respawn times are affected by how each team is doing, the attacking team has incredibly fast respawns and the defenders have incredibly long respawns, promoting constant pushing from the attackers, and careful conservation as defenders.
I picture, that if your team is doing OK and has enough men on the field, then there's no reason not to push. as with current district, you should always be pushing towards the next flag. So people will still attack even though the deaths are more significant.
I agree with the respawn time increase, except make it for all maps so people start to think as you say, now tanks will have to be nerfed or grens buffed but i think it can work
Lol nerf respawn times on normal maps, so when one team gets ahead now you have no chance of stopping them ever.
On normal maps, you frequently have to run for 20 seconds or so before you see any action anyway, so they've already got this in my mind.
I agree with the problem. The solution, not so much. A longer respawn time assumes people will be respawning. Most will be revived, and if that doesn't take any longer then you'll generally be where you are now, just with longer games hitting the time limit. It is the players who can't be revived that make a game move on, and generally to the detriment of their team. Playing defensively and waiting for the other guy to make the first mistake lets you capitalize on their long spawn time, as well as minimize your own losses by keeping your dead players well within reach. It does help the rambos do what they always do, since they don't have to worry about draining their team's resources, but they also end up depriving their team of a functional player for that much longer, which is a much less obvious penalty with the same disastrous effect in combat. "People get less rage when running for 5 seconds than waiting, dead, for 5 seconds" I hate running place to place. There are many things that can go wrong and it's not exactly effortless. If you just wait to respawn, there's very little that can go wrong and it's completely effortless. :p (This is completely personal preference, but I figured it's worth voicing.)
Make the entire map bleed tickets. Like, both teams bleed five tickets / second the instant the map starts, regardless of who holds what flags. If that isn't fast enough, increase it to 10 or 20 or 100 tickets per second. I forget, how many tickets do you start with on District? Set it to that. ...more seriously, though. District's problems go beyond what can be fixed with simple numerical tweaks. It's a tight, narrow 'corridor' map focused on chokepoints... in a game with weapons designed and balanced for tank combat. Empires is not really designed to encourage infantry rushes. It's designed for hard defensive positions to be broken by tanks, with infantry supporting them. An Empires map with no tanks is always going to have serious problems no matter how much you tweak it, short of completely altering the game just for that one map.
Why not solve the ticket problem on district the way it was done on glycen? Increase the tickets by 100-1000x, have all the flags bleed constantly at different rates (possibly exclude the middle flag), this way people will be ably to respawn and play for as long as the map is on. Really the only thing that can help district is a redesign; possibly some alternate paths through the buildings on either side of the street and fix NF's ability to turret up their own bleeder.
Easy and radical solution to fix district: Disable engineer calculator. I play often on the ELC to help new players. They mostly don't care about revive. And there district is exactly what it should be. A small break from normal gameplay where you just run around and shoot people.
Problem is it is not the engineers that make it boring or lead to stalemates; the majority of the fun is sapped out by riflemen with HMGs who will cut you down if you leave cover and grenadiers who will shell you if you remain there. Smoke and concussion grenade spam reduce visibility and leave you sitting ducks for opponent, while people with good pings run around with scout hide + speed upgrade +defusal + health upgrade + melee upgrade killing people in sewers and those caught in the scout grenade spam.
They are the main reason why district often last much too long. Sounds very balanced. Just choose rifleman or grenadier by yourself. What do you want more? Also sounds balanced. If you are good you will make some kills. If not you only waste one ticket.
Replace revive skill with a new "evacuate" skill. You just respawn, but dont use a ticket to do so. Reducing the semi immortal squad formations.
Tbh, I agree with the removal of the engi calc. Turrets stalemate the game, cameras give the team that knows how to use them a significant advantage, and revive is just insane on that map. Riflemen with HMG's are countered by scout-snipers, mortars, and other rifles. Maybe not so much mortars considering that there's a huge glitch, but while firing the HMG stamina doesn't regenerate, therefore allowing you to hit them twice on full-force.
Easier solution: Remove district from the map rotation if there are more than 12 people in the server.
I agree with the OP actually. Although I think we could have respawns start at 30s, but decrease by 5s for every flag you take. The map time could be capped at 30-45 minutes, at which time whoever has more flags wins. If no one has more flags, it's a draw. I also agree that District should be removed for large servers, or more than 32 people on the server.
