Sounds like it going to be a detailed map afterall. I would like to play it if it's finished. I was just worried because it looked so plain(the city and the surrounding). -------------------------- A 1024 grid has got enough space for a detailed house, including a bathroom, dining room, 2 bedrooms a balcony, a roof and even a basement. But I can't blaim you for not knowing that as you may have never tried that before. Ever heard of flags and spawn points? Like in district? It doesn't take 10 years to get anywhere, it just takes 10 years to finish the entire map, while 1 stage may only take 5 minutes. Making it a fast paced map. Yet the backstory determines most of the look of the map. so YES it is important. But I agree that gameplay is the most important. But don't forget the story, architecture, eye candy, ect. Is part of that.
I don't know where you got that, but the length of both barracks is longer than 1024. You probably can't fit more than 2 barracks at most in a 1024³ box. If you mean 1024 at grid size 8 or something like that, then mention it, you're making a fool out of yourself.
Placing entities is hardly difficult, Satanchild. And yes, I meant to be rude. Quite honestly, telling someone that their map is shit and they should start over and work on another one of your shitty concepts by yourself is quite rude as well.
Try it your self, and then come back. See, It does fit. And I can even fit another barracks next to it(almost). I never said that. Making good entities is as hard as good architecture. Everyone can place water and lights, but nice water and nice lights takes some time.
A 1024 grid has got enough space for a detailed house, including a bathroom, dining room, 2 bedrooms a balcony, a roof and even a basement. But I can't blaim you for not knowing that as you may have never tried that before. Well, I don't spend my time in hammer trying to play sims. Ever heard of flags and spawn points? Like in district? It doesn't take 10 years to get anywhere, it just takes 10 years to finish the entire map, while 1 stage may only take 5 minutes. Making it a fast paced map. Except it would take at least 5 minutes for each team to meet in the middle, and even when they did, it'd just be slowly moving back to where one team came from. I doubt a single person on this entire forum would think an infantry map that is as big as hammer's maximum is a good idea. Yet the backstory determines most of the look of the map. so YES it is important. But I agree that gameplay is the most important. But don't forget the story, architecture, eye candy, ect. Is part of that. No, gameplay determines the look, not backstory, backstory is what you apply after you've made a map, it shouldn't affect gameplay in any way. Sure you might think of a scenario and thus pull gameplay from that, but no, what you said there is incorrect. So you agree that cities don't need good architecture and an overwhelming sky line. Isntead you jsut want them to be blocks with textures? Sorry sir OMNI, but that brushwork isn't hard at all. Putting in entities and details is much harder, wich is what Silk is doing right now. Brushwork is far far harder than adding entities. Of course seeing as you failed to find the prop panel, I can see how this might be harder for the less intelligent among us, or in your case, just fucking retarded. As I said to Trickster, 1024 can fit an entire buildings. 1024 grid is bigger then a barracks, to be exactly you can fit 8 Barracks in a 1024x1024x1024 grid. Wait. what? No. Just to make sure you get this, a barracks is the building a team spawns in, not that little rotating thing that shoots people which is known as a turret. You can fix that with chokepoints, and to prevent stalemates and slow gameplay you restrict turrets. No. A good mapper doesn't need to use artificial clips to fix gameplay unless its a specific section where it isn't viable. Engy restricting a choke point is stupid. You call me a retarted troll because I give sugestions to someone and criticize his work. OMNI, your not only unfimiliar with the meaning of those two words but you are also extremly rude. No, he calls you retarded because you have the IQ of an underdeveloped foetus. Then why did they evacuate? If they did evacuate then this could add an intersting amount of detail to the map, abandoned evactuation vehicles, dead people, burning tanks and cars. At that point the reason why they evactuated is not important, as the main reason the city is left abandoned is because thye evacuated. So you think I am a retarted troll because I asked what was the reason the city was abandoned... We think you're retarded because this doesn't matter, backstory comes after gameplay. EDIT: It appears you posted some more As I said to Trickster, 1024 can fit an entire buildings. 1024 grid is bigger then a barracks, to be exactly you can fit 8 Barracks in a 1024x1024x1024 grid. Yet in the post above you can see that you might be lucky to fit 2 barracks in. Last time I checked 2 =/= 8. Your screenshot actually disproves this. Making good entities is as hard as good architecture. Everyone can place water and lights, but nice water and nice lights takes some time. Making good entities? I'm sorry. what? You place entities and edit values.
You're not checking the complete length, it's 1040 units long. You're also not taking into account the crates and barrels on the model, which indicates you're using an older videocard.
That screenshot was taken in hammer(I sugest you have allready seen that). And my video card is quite new, so I sugest it has to do with my settings. But you can still put allot of barracks in a 1024³ block. Add more spawn locations. Does it take 5 minutes to get from flag 3 to flag 4? No, you can get there in less then 20 seconds. I was wrong, you are right on that. I didn't mean to say something like that, I was talking aobut the basic sence. Gameplay should atleast make some sence. Gameplay affects backstory, atleast if you make map first and then the backstory. You can also do it visa-versa. But either way, a backstory is nice. Atleast, I like it. You don't know me in real life, I was busy building a map and I couldn't find an entity. To be exact I was looking for adding trees as decoration. I first made displacements, then I made the brushes and buildings, then the basic entities like lights, spawn poitns and then I wanted trees. I am a human ok? Is it wrong to forget something? First explain you never hang around in the hammer editor, but you do seem to know that entities are harder then brushes. Multiple entities and brushes are used to make lights and water. It isn't just something like "Light + Water = map" you can do that but your map will look like crap. You don't get my point, I was saying it's possible to make a high detailed building on a 1024² grid. Because you guys were dissagreeing with me saying that was impossible. Do you know an infantry map without chokepoints? Engineers camping a flag is just silly. As there is almost no way to beat a lvl3 MG turret. Escpacialy as most engineers will stick behind it and repair it while it is being shot. You don't know me, so why am I an underdevoloped foetus? Because I criticize someones work and give sugestions? First you argue about me saying stuff to make me look intelligent and the you call me and absolute retard. I don't think an underdevoloped foetus can come up with those architectural types with giving them a clear description what their features are. You can fit 8 in if you only use the parts you actualy see in game, around 4~ if you use the entire barracks. Just as above, it takes around 4-5 entities to make a simple light. Making detailed, moving, shining, transculent, waving, reflecting water takes even more. Again this proves you know little about the hammer editor, altough you claim I suck at it.
You can barely fit 3 BE barracks in it, if you ignore the fact that it's longer than 1024 units. You should always consider the full size, not just the full visual size. A square patch of water takes 1 brush, no entities are needed to do that. It'll have reflections, distance-based transparency, and all the bells and whistles. Environmental light needs 1 light and skybox brushes, again, not a bunch of entities. We were disagreeing with the fact that you suggested a highly detailed building, where something simple would do much better. Right now level designers can't control the level of the turrets placed by engineers, so the only option is to prevent turret placement. If necessary, turrets can easily be removed from infantry maps. You see the barracks in its entirety ingame, not just the walls. Theres the parts outside, crates and barrels. Don't tell me you don't see that. It takes 1 entity to make a simple light, which is just a light, not anything visual. You can't have water with effects AND have it move, it's impossible to have in the Source engine due to the way the effects work. You know less than anyone else here.
That screenshot was taken in hammer(I sugest you have allready seen that). And my video card is quite new, so I sugest it has to do with my settings. But you can still put allot of barracks in a 1024³ block. No. Just no. Stop contradicting yourself. You said you can get 8 raxes in a 1024 cubed block. Not possible. Add more spawn locations. Does it take 5 minutes to get from flag 3 to flag 4? No, you can get there in less then 20 seconds. This sentence makes no sense. You need to actually be referring to a specific map. I was wrong, you are right on that. I didn't mean to say something like that, I was talking aobut the basic sence. Gameplay should atleast make some sence. Gameplay affects backstory, atleast if you make map first and then the backstory. You can also do it visa-versa. But either way, a backstory is nice. Atleast, I like it. Emphasis on "I like it". Your opinion, not fact. You don't know me in real life, I was busy building a map and I couldn't find an entity. To be exact I was looking for adding trees as decoration. I first made displacements, then I made the brushes and buildings, then the basic entities like lights, spawn poitns and then I wanted trees. I am a human ok? Is it wrong to forget something? I'm glad I don't know you in real life. What you asked was how to add props, not a specific prop, stop trying to cover up your lack of knowledge. First explain you never hang around in the hammer editor, but you do seem to know that entities are harder then brushes. Multiple entities and brushes are used to make lights and water. It isn't just something like "Light + Water = map" you can do that but your map will look like crap. What. Right this statement is a mess. First, I do occasionally open up hammer and do some work in it, I'm not good, but its a matter of learning so I can better understand and help people with it. I said specifically that brushes are harder than entity work, you just said I said the opposite of that. Seriously, entities are just editing values. You don't get my point, I was saying it's possible to make a high detailed building on a 1024² grid. Because you guys were dissagreeing with me saying that was impossible. I didn't say it was impossible, I said its pointless. Do you know an infantry map without chokepoints? Engineers camping a flag is just silly. As there is almost no way to beat a lvl3 MG turret. Escpacialy as most engineers will stick behind it and repair it while it is being shot. Do you know an infantry map that takes up the entire hammer grid? no. For a good reason. And pfft, if you cant take down a turret, then you must really suck at the game. You don't know me, so why am I an underdevoloped foetus? Because I criticize someones work and give sugestions? First you argue about me saying stuff to make me look intelligent and the you call me and absolute retard. I don't think an underdevoloped foetus can come up with those architectural types with giving them a clear description what their features are. I was referring to you as an immature child. But, wikipedia can give clear descriptions, and besides, all you did was list them. You can fit 8 in if you only use the parts you actualy see in game, around 4~ if you use the entire barracks. Entire rax is required numbnuts. Just as above, it takes around 4-5 entities to make a simple light. Making detailed, moving, shining, transculent, waving, reflecting water takes even more. Again this proves you know little about the hammer editor, altough you claim I suck at it. No. 1 entity can make a simple light. Making the light more complicated takes more stuff, like a cubemap to do the specular light handling and stuff. Also, water is easy. 1 brush, nodraw it all except the top, put an expensive water texture on, job done.
I was asking about props in general. I am talking about district when I was talking about the flags. Yes you can fit 8 barracks in a 1024³ block. I've tried it my self, atleast if you only use the actualy vissible part of the barracks. There are a qaudzillion number of entities and values. Each wich should be used for a specific situation. But that is a matter of opinion. It's not pointless to make a highdetailed building on a 1024² tile. It saves space, it doesn't take an entire map to make a football stadium. You said it was impossible to make a detailed city on a hammer map, IT IS POSSIBLE. Even if I hit it with my mortar I can't kill it if 2 engineers with repair upgrade are repairing it. I can do it with 1 but not 2, and it is impossible when you got people shoting at you and you need to aim. Sorry, unfortunatly in comparison to you I cannot beat 3 Lvl3 Turrets, 6 Engineers repairing them, 4 Rifleman shooting at me with just 1 mortar. I am not immature, neither I am retarted or a troll. You just don't get what I mean. And the way you act is even more insulting then OMNI. Your rude and unpolite. It is incribly sad that you need to deliberatly insult me to point out your opinion. Atleast I try to come up with facts and arguements instead of ending up in a massive frenzy and an unstoppable rage. Even then it still works. Try it, start up hammer and try it. I prefer detail, extreme amounts of detail. If I make a map I make it perfect, if something is wrong I delete it. Maybe the top of the cake is delicious, but if everything below it is disgusting it will not be worth eating.
I tried fitting the BE barracks in 1024³ box, it could barely fit 3 of them on top of eachother. Still, you'll have to ignore that it's longer than 1024. And rotating it doesn't counts, it breaks the barracks. Also, you obviously don't know about the maximum limits of maps, several Empires maps are on the verge of not working because they reached the maximum.
I prefer being able to play the map, lots of being able to play the map. Satanchild, you seem to fail to understand that there are LIMITS to hammer and the Source Engine. EVERY ONE OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS HAS DISREGARDED SUCH LIMITS. And seriously, entities are easy. Piss easy. If you find them hard, I can't help but think you are stupid. You are also arguing with one of the developers. I highly doubt you know more than them about the engine they have spent two years developing a mod on. So stop acting like it.
I was asking about props in general. I am talking about district when I was talking about the flags. Yes you can fit 8 barracks in a 1024³ block. I've tried it my self, atleast if you only use the actualy vissible part of the barracks. There are a qaudzillion number of entities and values. Each wich should be used for a specific situation. But that is a matter of opinion. It's not pointless to make a highdetailed building on a 1024² tile. It saves space, it doesn't take an entire map to make a football stadium. You said it was impossible to make a detailed city on a hammer map, IT IS POSSIBLE. No you can't fit 8 raxes in. Stop saying you can. Please. Even if I hit it with my mortar I can't kill it if 2 engineers with repair upgrade are repairing it. I can do it with 1 but not 2, and it is impossible when you got people shoting at you and you need to aim. Sorry, unfortunatly in comparison to you I cannot beat 3 Lvl3 Turrets, 6 Engineers repairing them, 4 Rifleman shooting at me with just 1 mortar. Then you fail with mowtar, simple as, you make it land to the side of the turret, killing the engys, at the very least they try to heal eachother before the turret, you do it again, turret goes down or engys go down, simple as. I am not immature, neither I am retarted or a troll. You just don't get what I mean. And the way you act is even more insulting then OMNI. Your rude and unpolite. It is incribly sad that you need to deliberatly insult me to point out your opinion. Atleast I try to come up with facts and arguements instead of ending up in a massive frenzy and an unstoppable rage. No the difference is I'm bringing the argument down to a level you can understand, OMNI just happens to be arguing on a higher level which I feel isn't quite getting into your head. I prefer detail, extreme amounts of detail. If I make a map I make it perfect, if something is wrong I delete it. Maybe the top of the cake is delicious, but if everything below it is disgusting it will not be worth eating. Yes but empires doesn't like extreme amount of detail, gameplay > detail.
Apparantly i went over this limit, as i crashed again with the same message. I assume there's not much else to do as to remove details on my buildings?
I fixed emp_hazard crashes by lowering the skybox, removing lots of details and making the gorge less deep.
Really? This would all be so much easier if i actually understood how the engine worked. I rarely see the connection between problems and possible solutions. I have no clue how things get handled internally. Ah well, i've gotten tired of the map again, so it'll be a while untill i resume working on it i guess.
Am I acting like that? I can't help it, but I can fit 5 BE and 3 NF barracks in a 1024³ block, that means the entire building. More then 8 if I only include the actual visual stuff. I never said entities were hard, I said they were harder then brushes. You can't - on 1024² You can - in 1024³ Most of the time you hit the turret, or you get shot or the engis get revived or healed. I can understand you, once again you say something wich has the goal of insulting me. I was talking about map detail, not gameplay. Maybe a map that consists of a single brush is very usefull, but I don't think people like it. If the gameplay is good and the map runs smooth then it's alright, but adding eye-candy and architectural masterpieces will also add variety to the map. Making people want to play this map, not only that is important, but it will also look like if this mod has got professional mappers. Making it another factor wich benefits the game.
I am assuming you have that Engine Hunk Overflow error? That happens when the map is simply to complex. Increasing the lightmaps on rooftops is a great way to solve this issue without changing anything around.
