Dark map ideas

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by Silk, Sep 2, 2008.

  1. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I neeeeeeeed them !!

    Summary:
    - I've been think about making a new map after the current ones are finished
    - I want it to look like an apocalyptic area you are returning to !!
    - It should have big open areas and city parts filled with wrecks
    - It MUST have fires and smoke, a lot ... with wrecks
    - Atmosphere should feel like ... well returning to a dark, deserted place
    - Should be playable (cpu), good looking and fun

    Problems:
    - Dark + fire = nice atmosphere, but you can't see shit
    - Fire + smoke = nice atmosphere, but it reduces fps
    - Different types of light should look realistic and lighten only those prop surfaces that would actually receive light in real life
    - How do i make realistic looking neon signs that emit enough light to lit the surrounding environment
    - What can i do that makes for good gameplay in a map where there are parts where you can't see shit: people would want to stay in the light, but they'd get killed there
    - How can there still be fires when the place has been deserted for so long ? Need an excuse


    What helps the map:
    - Rubble and debris often does not need collisions
    - Props in dark area's can fade out on a very short distance already
    - Dynamic lights are not necessary to make a good atmosphere
    - Depending on the map layout, big spots could lit big areas


    Any suggestions, remarks, tips, ... etc very much appreciated !!!!


    I've been experimenting with fire and smoke:
    http://users.telenet.be/samhannes/mapping/emp_revenge/

    - Before looking at the screenshots, close the blinds ;) Otherwise you won't see much.
    - These would be the darkest parts of the map. A lot of places would be lit by ... well that's what i need suggestions for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  2. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    GASP A COMPETITOR !!!

    http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=6577

    That are my first tryouts.

    Well I try to lighten the main routes and use the shadows
    like bushes and trees on other maps.

    for realistic lighting: ONLY USE SPOTLIGHTS in the real
    world there is no floating light sphere without a direction.

    http://www.interlopers.net/tutorials/17779

    thats a good tutorial about spotlights, you
    should be able to make realistic neon light with it.

    Set your light enviroment so that the brightness itself
    and ambience are almost the same.
    Use the brightness to make good looking shadows
    and ambience for the lighting of the map itself.

    Extract your favourite skybox texture and darken
    it with a programm like photoshop. Theres no real
    dark skybox and i havent found a single good looking
    on the internet.

    For fire, you can place a light entity that goes randomly
    on and of inside to make it look more realistic.

    On my monitor your screenshots dont look like night
    they look like early morning and I have my monitor at
    50% brightness and contrast, means average settings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  3. [lodw]keef

    [lodw]keef Hobbit

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    meh, I dont think night maps are a good idea, dont encourage everyone to max their brightness.
     
  4. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I think that's an excuse. People who are willing to increase brightness to cheat their way into the top 5 on the scoreboard are idiots, and i won't have idiots ruin my ideas :)

    I'm hoping i can make it so that there's enough light in places where most of the fights will take place. And that increasing brightness will look terrible, just too screw those people.


    Nah

    I haven't played that map of yours yet, but i'm sure i can make a dark map that's totally different gameplay wise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  5. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    The map I'm working on at the moment (emp_insurrection, a swamp) will be darkened once I've ironed out the (many) bugs in it. with thick fog and misty waters, it might have some serious ambience. :D
     
  6. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Have a few [not the entire map] dark 'obstacles' where you NEED a flashlight on.
     
  7. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

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    Here's a thought. Have the edges of the map covered in flames that provides some creepy map lighting.

    As to why those fires are still going, say the area was riddles with pipes carrying natural gas from an old refinery (used for heating, lighting, etc). The natural gas has seeped from the decrepit pipes and causes long lasting fires in the area.
     
  8. Empty

    Empty Member

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    You could also say it's an underground coal fire and have small pits of fire.
     
  9. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    All good ideas

    And now i know what buildings i can place there: refinery/mining facility
     
  10. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    anyone experimented with black fog ???
     
  11. Broccoli

    Broccoli Member

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    As for the neon signs, you might try experimenting with env_beam. For the light emitted, use a dim point light. If there is a background (like below), bake the highlights into the texture.

    [​IMG]

    If you really want to go all-out, include lightning using bright point lights and color correction.
     
  12. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    I played around with dark fog.

    First off, sometimes black fog doesnt compile :(
    dont know why maybee my fault but if you get it work
    it makes a really confusing and claustrophobic feeling.

    Like real dark night, BUT that means its nearly unplayable.
    Best for empires looks a black fog with 1000-5000 units setting.
    Playable is a setting of like 1000-15000.
     
  13. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I took screens of a layout of how i intend to make the map. I'm hoping knowing what will be in the map might give people ideas like 'put this there', 'do this here' or 'don't do this'. So ... yeah ... as long as it has to do with a 'apocalyptic' atmosphere, overwhelm me with suggestions :)

    http://users.telenet.be/samhannes/mapping/emp_revenge/latest/

    - Spawn areas will be in north west and south east
    - North east will be a small part of a (heavily damaged/destroyed) city, protected by high walls (which i use to optimize visibility - nothing from the lower part of the city will be drawn from outside the city, and when standing on the city streets, nothing outside the city will be drawn)
    - Around the city is a (almost) dried up river. This place should be the ultimate tank battle or jeep race area. The water is nowhere over 30 units deeps so you can stand/drive everywhere.
    - Outside the city, hills like in duststorm will make sure fights get a bit more ... focused, although you can go on top of them. They also allow for blocking visibility to again increase fps.
    - Two bridges lead to the city, but some sort of construction in center should make a third way into the city. I haven't quite figured out what i'll be putting there.
    - The map will be a lot darker (brightness at least halfed)! Light spots from gates/the wall/buildings/starting bases together with fires will be the main source of light in this map.

    I think the city parts can be pretty detailed. Effects and models that are lower than one and a half times the BE barracks will be in visleafs not being drawn from outside the city, and the buildings themselves will also block visibility from inside the city itself a bit. So i might be able to use expensive effects, if you can recommend a few.

    That said i was also thinking about adding a few fires and some smoke in destroyed rooms of skyscrapers, very high above the ground. I think it would look pretty good. Though they might not be visible from too far away, or reduce fps since it's visible from the entire map.

    I've been experimenting with smokestack trying to make it look as good as this: http://users.telenet.be/samhannes/mapping/emp_revenge/emp_pickaname0001.jpg without reducing fps too much. I'm (almost) sure it's possible, i'm just not there yet. If anyone ever made nice looking smoke going high into the sky affected by the wind, i would love to know what settings you used.

    Also Arklansman, since you are the official mapper now, i assume that skybox is now part of empires so i can use it?

    And i'll experiment with dark fog, and see what happens.


    Any extra/new ideas anyone?
     
  14. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    man your night is not dark enough for night... D:

    it looks like evening (stormy evening cause of the sky)
     
  15. BumGravy

    BumGravy Member

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    Wow i really like your cityplan and layout, this should be awesome. Maybe you could add in destroyable stuff like oildrums, a gas station, or a oil tanker truck that can be blown up and destroyed to activate more fires.
     
  16. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    ;)

    Brushes can be made destructable, but i don't know if i can have props look as if they explode. Activiting more fires is an awesome idea. It also solves the problem of how fires can still be burning after all this time. You ignite fuel cans and stuff while playing. Could be used to spot a sniper nearby or to use the light to retreat in darkness yourself. Interesting indeed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  17. BumGravy

    BumGravy Member

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    Have a nodrawed brush that takes up the same space as the prop and have it Kill the prop when triggered and fire some effects entities.
     
  18. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    How can i make an elevator fall down on certain height?
    It should go up like any other elevator when pressing up, but at a certain height i want to add sparks, a noise, and i'd want to elevator the come crashing down.
     
  19. BumGravy

    BumGravy Member

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    You should have the elvator running along path_tracks. There is a trigger condition for "on pass" to activate an event when a certain point is passed. Use this output to trigger the sparks/whatever, then you can have the elevator move to an underground path_track, or you can kill the elevator entity and spawn identical brushes tied to phys_prop which can be made to fall realistically like debris.
     
  20. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    the biggest problem with dark mapps is the lack of muzzle flash and explosions
    lighten the world geometry. Well in 1.07 it did lighten the surounding.

    EDIT: black fog with a max density of 0.8 looks really good
    You get those defuse lights in the distance feeling quite good
    simulated with fog start 500 fog end 10000 and fog max density 0.8
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008

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