Cut arty ROF dramatically and make shells home in on scout binocular targets.

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Chris0132', Jun 21, 2009.

  1. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is partly because I've been playing a lot of armed assault lately and laser guided bombing is awesome as hell, there's something intrinsically fun about using your laser marker and having someone drop bombs and blow everything to crap.

    So, I figure three things:

    1. Arty aiming sucks balls.

    2. Arty spam is crap.

    3. Scouts need a function.

    Now scouts still need better weapons and a playstyle of their own, but I think a cool element would be to give them the ability to guide arty shells, I mean actually guide them, as in the binoculars create a laser dot wherever they're aimed and all arty shells nearby home in on that dot.

    Scouts get points for any kills gained with this, as do the arty operators, so both units get something out of it, it also allows units to do things you might not otherwise be able to do, like hit people behind walls precisely.

    You could also expand this to give scouts the ability to plant homing beacons on things, like a sticky grenade, except they act as a magnet for certain weapons, like arty, or even grenadier RPGs.

    It's not OP on its own, and it allows other team members to become more powerful, and everyone loves being powerful.

    I suggest cutting arty ROF because to be honest, all people do now is just spam spam spam and miss half the time, which isn't really a good mechanic. If you're good with arty you can use feedback to hit targets without the scout but this would make feeback a less vital skill, and allow newbie arty operators to be more helpful, while generally reducing the spammyness of arty.

    It's not a 'this will fix the scout completely' suggestion but it is something I think would be fun.

    Of course it doesn't actually have to be a scout skill, you could give the binos to another class if you wanted, as well as the homing beacons, engineers for example could have homing beacons instead of seismics, so blowing up structures involves tagging them and then watching as a million shells all go right for it, so it doesn't have to be a scout skill, it just seems as though it could be if you want to keep scouts.

    The main issue I can think of is that there wouldn't be enough things affected by this.

    I don't think making normal cannons affected would be a good idea, and making missiles affected would favour NF too much, one thing I did think was that comms could call offmap arty strikes which aren't very good by default but which become powerful when the scouts lock targets for them, but that has problems of its own because offmap arty is a bit of a god power and we want to avoid those.

    The best solution I think would be an early game arty vehicle, maybe an APC weapon which uses all the weight capacity and fires a shitload of rockets into the air, it can have a shorter range and longer cooldown than actual arty but it would allow for this homing mechanic to become the major method of destroying structures in the early game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  2. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I love the idea of a flare that makes all rockets/shells lean towards the victim.
     
  3. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not all rockets and shells, that would probably look really silly and be rather unfair for that one person, but specific weapons which are equally present in both armies I don't have a problem with.
     
  4. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

    Messages:
    4,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well:

    Homing requires no lockon time.
    RPG's (guided overrides this)
    Extended range maybe, for shells. Just "Lean into" it.

    And like you said, arty would also tend to hit the target.
     
  5. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Er, I was kinda thinking that arty shells would 'lean into' it, which given their long flight time would allow them to hit targets they would normally be slightly off, it shouldn't be strong enough to make RPGs into homing missiles. RPGs might actively home in on the beacon version and arty homing would be increased, but all other weapons would ignore it.

    I don't want every shell on the battlefield being drawn towards these, just specific weapons which otherwise might be rather weak.
     
  6. ba'al

    ba'al Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why not make arties shoot straight up, and let the shells fall where the scout has told them to?
     
  7. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Because then arties are nonfunctional without scouts, that's not the idea.

    I am already concerned about nerfing them too much with this modification, I don't want them to be completely useless without scout markers, which is also why I said you could give the homing beacons to other classes, because I don't want arty to depend entirely on scouts, but I do think it could benefit from depending on infantry in general, as it presents a viable alternative to spammy arty.
     
  8. o_O

    o_O Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is actually a really good idea. Gives scouts a purpose (!!!) and makes arties less like massed starcraft siege tanks and more like heavy support for their team.
     
  9. Mashav

    Mashav Member

    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't really see why arty RoF would need to be dramatically nerfed for this. Maybe a bit, but not dramatically.

    Also, what happens if there's more then one target near eachother?

    I'd prefer If when an arty user brought up the map they could select an arty target. Then, if they fire near it, the shots will curve towards that specific one.

    As long as this doesn't interfere with the scout getting other buffs, I'm all for it.
     
  10. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,520
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Arty RoF is too high really. I can see that. it should be at least .5 seconds longer.

    artillery aiming isn't that hard, nor is it complete crap. if commander couldn't give targets, scouts would be much more useful. Unfortunately, artillery is much more useful as a refinery sniper than other buildings, therefore most times scouts are un needed as refineries are marked on the map.
     
  11. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

    Messages:
    6,210
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like the idea of a homing beacon sticky thing...also painting the target sounds good, but i'm less in love with it for some reason.

    I was going to say, maybe make it researchable as to which weapons can home in like this. Ofc make arty+scout combo default workable, but a 450res/60s researchable for "nearby cannon rounds home to the target" and ditto for missiles might be useful.
     
  12. Dr. Rockso

    Dr. Rockso Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This would be cool if it was optional somehow. I'd hate to be pushing a vital area with arty to support my tanks and end up being useless because some awesome scout targeted a turret outside of the area I want to saturate.
     
  13. zenarion

    zenarion Member

    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Arty secondary: shoot straight up, the shell disappears from view, then reappears to fall and strike where the a random scout put his laser designator, if in range.
     
  14. Dubee

    Dubee Grapehead

    Messages:
    8,636
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like arty tanks how they are.. That being said I think this should work for the squad artillery power and have it a scout in your squad can spot a target he just sabbed and you can arty it from out of range or sight.
     
  15. HEXYDEZIMAL

    HEXYDEZIMAL Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't honestly see any good reason not to implement something like this.
     
  16. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

    Messages:
    6,210
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There doesn't have to be a good reason. There's a absolutely HUGE list of things that need to be implemented, but they just aren't as important as regular empires development, so you see them piecemeal - like the revive icon over dead teammates.
     
  17. zenarion

    zenarion Member

    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We are here to discuss suggestions, not to speculate which one of them are more useful than others, and must be implemented first.

    Can anyone come up with any good arguments AGAINST this? I can not. I like this. It could make Scouts with binoculars useful in some way actually.
     
  18. Nickierv

    Nickierv Member

    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Team rushes guided arty.
    Scout that is tagging buildings, after the rounds are already in the air "shit, I just tagged myself...fuck..."

    For the beacons/tag, think of them as mine, but you can only have 1 out at a time. Each tag only works for the first 3-5 rounds that go into its guide cone. In order to get the round to guide, you have to get the round into the cone, then the shell tries to home in on the tag, otherwise the arty works as normal arty.

    A 3sec RoF for arty would not be bad, but there should be ranging cannon that you can fit in as well so you don't wait forever to get your shots ranged.
     
  19. o_O

    o_O Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It would give the scout a use other then hide in the VF and sab it over and over. Also, secondary fire could toggle this on and off because you only want it active when smart scouts (you know who you are) are tagging stuff.
     
  20. mr_quackums

    mr_quackums Member

    Messages:
    2,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    good idea if it can be disable by the guy in the arty and if there is a way to choose which marker you want to "lean" into
     

Share This Page