Even without the addition of a pilot class, there must be a time delay when getting out of vehicles. It simply makes no sense realistically (in any reality) and is annoying gameplay-wise when a player teleports out of a vehicle as a missile is coming to take out his tank. Give me a break. Should take AT LEAST 5 seconds for everything except the jeep. This would solve 90% of my issues with all classes driving vehicles. Here is a more radical change I just thought of: the vehicle factory no longer buys a vehicle for the player, but rather turns the player into a vehicle. In other words, you can never exit your vehicle. Abandoned tanks would be a thing of the past and teamplay would be more necessary because you need engies around to repair you/restock you (can't do it yourself) -Matt
i am pro in a wierd kind of way, you wont be able to leave the tank if you need to (for example) press a button,
I think the only way that change would ever work would be in large servers (10v10 or greater). Getting stuff done is hard enough on smaller servers without FORCING teamwork... My bigger point is that people teleporting out of vehicles is a problem :^)
I think if someone is serious about their aircraft they will land quite a distance from a enemy. If this class is made, I think the Pilot should be able to fix a percentage of the aircrafts health, but the rest would have to be done by a engineer to keep team work. Though I don't really want to go into the classes unique abilities, that can be saved for a serious discussion on the class in another thread for it. The number one reason I want this class is not to add something new to the game, but to make another preventive measure to stop people from using them as ditch transportation. Honestly, when I see people buy tanks now they stick with them. They aren't as fast as jeeps or as maneuverable as jeeps and they aren't made for the kind of transportation of jeeps. What I'm afraid of is players just buying a fighter thats probably going to be expensive at it's basic level, and just using it for transportation to go and fight or to get a vantage point. Sure a Commander can just lock it down, but the commander is going to watch all the players just to find out what they are doing with a certain vehicle. Odds are a commander won't have a list of player's names to identify them as that kind of player. So the Cammander idea will only be 100% bullet proof with people named Emp_Recruit who have no idea what they are doing and probably would actually use the aircraft to fly around instead of getting up his kill count.
The trouble I have with your idea, blueshirt, is that your "preventative measure" works by fundamentally and dramatically restricting the gameplay for everyone. I don't think such a drastic step is required once more varied commander restrictions are in place, especially not if a team is communicating. And if a team isn't communicating, perhaps they don't deserve to win.
i don't think we should punish the game and the gameplay as a whole to teach people not to abandon aircraft. currently tanks arn't used to bash past a turret and then get abandoned, so i doubt aircraft will either. i have however seen people repeatedly build jeeps, but they're cheap and can be reused to transport men around, as long as they don't get totally nubbed.
A pilot class might solve the problem of aircraft being used as quick, disposable transports. But I'm afraid that it would lead to too many people switching to pilots and camping at the aircraft factory. It could also be the opposite; if aircraft are restricted or there's a lack of resources, nobody becomes a pilot. Nobody wants to wait doing nothing when there's a chance of someone else buying a cheaper piece of crap before you, leaving you at the aircraft factory with your pathetic pistol, forcing you to walk back to the armory and to switch class to something more useful.
In what way will it take freedom away? I see people fit into their niches when they play the class they chose. Sure they can do other things, but people mostly pick the Engineer for reviving and being a medic/builder, not anti-infantry, people don't usually pick Grenadiers as anti-infantry either. If people purchase a aircraft, what freedom do they exactly need in the sky? Atleast the Pilot can be given skills that focus in that area of play. If they need a transport, their will be transport aircrafts and I'm sure people will be more then happy to pick them up or drop them off. The only people that need this freedom in gameplay for the aircraft are those who will use them as ditch transportation so that they can get their kill count up as a riflemen or scout. People talk about the scouts going off as snipers and not being a teamplayer class, well this is what some players will do with aircraft. All this would do is force team work, something that people constantly argue for on these forums. And why wouldn't people do the same camping at the aircraft factory without the class? The title and it's capabilities can be changed going to a armory or barracks. Then gameplay would be no different then it is now. If thats really a problem, then the developers can make it so that your class changes when you buy a aircraft, problem solved.
You're missing what I mean. Currently, to use tanks as an example, anyone can get into a tank. If a "tank driver" class were added, it would restrict the gameplay of the other classes, because they would no longer be able to drive tanks. I'm using tanks purely as an abstract example here. The same general logic applies to a pilot class. The other restriction is that, in the event that a plane is shot down, the pilot can no longer do anything. Oh, except suicide and respawn as something useful. And that just isn't fun. It's essentially consigning every pilot to death, because once something goes wrong, they die even if they escape the crash. Another problem is that it encourages people to do one of the things it tries to prevent. Adding this sort of class would actually encourage suicide runs, because if you're being shot at there's nothing else you can do. Bailing out isn't really an option, because then all you'll do is suicide anyway. So why not go out with a bang, in the blazing fireball caused by crashing your plane into their vf? :D
I see people hop out of veichles all the time, hell I do it myself as well... As of right not its a viable strategy to rush a lvl 3 ml and mg park the tank so the MG is blocked by the ML and you block the path between your tank and ML, easy as pie to take that out from there... Now imagine that with aircraft where it can be landed in place even faster, in all honesty I dont want to see that happen... We are not saying limit EVERYTHING to the Pilot, but only aircraft require you to be a pilot, tanks still can be driven by anyone... We are trying to make aircraft spam a very poor choice on the part of the commander and the team, so even if your in a map like money, "Paratrooping Engineers" will not be a problem, since the guy jumping out of the plane could only harm infantry with his "Fly Boy Side arm" and leave that CV alone... Jeep ninjas are bad enough as it is, I just dread the day that instead of bombing the CV with bombs... people try to do the same thing but using their own thick skulls instead of a nice explosive warhead... If you have any other ideas for how to make Aircraft more costly to use as jeeps... any method... I am more than willing to listen...
Only if your buying a aircraft then your already putting yourself in a position with less freedoms and options, you can't just hop out while your in the sky. The pilot would probably have more to it. The idea is that the pilot can't go toe to toe with any infantry, and cannot destroy buildings(unless ofcourse he's in his plane). It may take away options on the ground, but if your in a aircraft that doesn't matter. The class would just save people on spending money to constantly by aspirin from idiots who use the aircraft as transportation. Making a run would mean have the intention to Kamakazi from the moment the player bought the aircraft. If thats the case in what you mean, that can be done with any class. And the way I see it, if a player is in enemy territory and their aircraft is that badly injured already, then they wouldn't have a chance either way no matter which class they are. They'd be dropping in a area with anti-aircraft weapons, machine gun turrets, and a very pissed off group of player looking to get the kill for be harrassed a aircraft. It's suicide either way. I having a feeling this will be the norm tactic either way, like I said above. If a aircraft is in the base, they are going to have to worry about the turrets, tanks, and grenadiers with anti-aircraft weapons(not sure the Grenadier will have new anti-aircraft weapons). I did like Bodrick's idea in Krenzo's aircraft thread. He said the player can't exit a aircraft unless it only has 25% health left. Sounds good to me, I doubt the serious people flying aircraft will ever be getting out unless they were going to crash anyways.
then why not make you only able to exit a plane when it is landed??? this way the "pilot" class is obsolete, the "battlefield 19**" usage of planes as taxi is obsolete, the player can still use his plain as a taxi, but wont cous the jeep woud be far better then an aircraft, and is forced to engage an enemy to clear his landing zone, so the aircraft is used offencive
I don't understand how this answers my quote that you posted. If you been reading my arguement this whole thread, I don't want a person to land to jump out and ditch their aircraft to fight infantry as a riflemen, start building turrets as a Engineer, or start bombarding a base as a Grenadier. That'd be a waste of resources that could hurt a team just so someone could get kills and points. Again your confusing me here. I still saw people using the plane as a taxi, mostly in the Battle for Britain map. But you also have to consider those maps were pretty tight in that you knew where the enemy was. It's not as open as the Empire maps, and the empire maps are supposedly going to be alot bigger when aircraft come in. Not to mention there is a big difference between the battlefield aircraft and the Empires, Empires has verticle lifting and landing, which means people can land on a hill and take a pretty good vanatge point. The possibilities of using the Empire's aircraft as transports is alot easier since they are vertical take off and landing.
What? I meant that a player could decide at any point in his flight to go crash his airplane into things. There's significantly more incentive to do it as a pilot, because you can't fight and you can't destroy things if you bail out, so there's really no point to you doing anything but crashing into stuff. Against a good team that may be true. But the point is that by permitting it, you put the choice in the hands of the player, rather than in the hands of the game. They have a chance to survive, however small that is, and more importantly, they think that they can survive for some time if they play it well. The trouble with this idea is that if the plane is at, say, 26% health, and someone decides to have their missile home in on you, you're screwed. I still think only feasable way of preventing this sort of thing is by letting the commander restrict things. Give the controls to the players.
Am I the only one who wants to keep the planes free from artificial restrictions and see where it leads?
please, i just don't understand! please help me here! seriously, this is a call too all sane people on the forums: what is the pilot class actually adding? Here's a "run down" -you can't get out of you vehicle to kill people -you can't kill people ] -you can't kill vehicles ] -you can't kill buildings ] e.g yes, you ARE useless. totally. you serve no purpose. don't give me that "oh but you wanted to be in a tank so you wouldn't need to get out" crap because what you're saying is that this person doesn't have the freedom to do ANYthing but use the vehicle. and freedom is what this mod needs. what else does it benefit: -no more people jumping out of tanks and killing you ... so what you're surgesting is a halfarsed solution whereby the &&&& up the fluidity and use of many vehicles on the mod. what you're surgesting makes the mod LESS realistic, as in real life pilots have SMG's, what you're surgesting makes it tactically viable to die along with your vehicle because jettisoning only prolongs the moments where you are utterly useless to your team and don't have a vehicle. tactically it would be better to stick with the tank with flashing health and a missile lock, die and then quickly respawn, than jettison and do ABOSOLUTELY NOTHING. further, it would ruin much of the gameplay. there are MANY solutions to this problem that don't have to be "let's make anyone who wants to drive a tank 'bright pink with no weapons and a giant inflatable F***ing bannana as a decoy', ie, as useless as they would become. -oh oh! but they might use the aircraft as transports! that would be bad! oh, right. ofcourse. we MUST protect the community against noobs who might do this. nobody in the entire game might want to actually use vehicles as transports without getting them nubbed. take APC's for instance, vitally important for attacks where you want it at the back, not being driven around by the bored pilot who has nothing else to do. we can TEACH people not to nub things, it's part of the learning process. why not stop people who have been on the mod for less than 5 hours from buying vehicles, hey, why even let people who don't know how to play on the servers at all? ------------------- blueshirts, you are currently not providing answers to any of the questions that are in this topic, or even most of those that you quote in your posts! please look at a different solution
Have you been reading this thread? The sides are split with the majority in your favor. I don't mind seeing how things work out first, I honestly could careless if their is a class or not. But it's going to piss me off when there are a few idiots every game taking a aircraft out as transportation hurting the team in the process so that they could get someplace as quickly as possible. Did someone stick their foot up your a**? Calm the hell down. Whats the topic about? Classes right? I already said before I don't mind other ideas to stop players using aircraft as ditch transports. I'm not really concerned with the new classes capabilities. You can do all sorts of things to make them useful, I just don't want to see riflemen, grenadiers on top of mountains or running around dropping mines where the enemy is just to get kills and points wasting money the team could have used. What more reason do I need? I'm not talking about adding aspects to the game because I want a new class, I'm talking about stopping idiots because I can almost garuantee you it will happen. People like to exploit and find anyway in getting the upper hand, we seen in it the beginning if you played the first release of the mod. By the way, the pilot class is only for aircraft, as far as I'm concerned, you can't relate them with ground vehicles as you can't just hop out of them, and if you do, you'll probably far out of enemies reach and screwed if your near enemies. Have I shown anyone in hear disrespect? I feel the sarcastic remarks above me were disrespect which is why I lashed out in my first sentence to Sandbag. I'd like to keep this discussion respectful to each other, you show me respect and I'll give it right back. 2nd Edit: Sorry didn't see your reply Falcon. Anyways I see no one wants the pilot class, but it's the only bullet proof way I can see to stop people from running off quickly just to get a few kills and wasting the money of the team. Like I said, I'm open for other ideas though I think it should be in another thread, maybe I'll start one today. I'm not discussing the capablilities of a Pilot class, I'm not concerned with that, the team can flesh out the class or people can discuss it. There can be numerous things done to it to give it playability outside of a aircraft, What I don't want to see is a Long Range flying a aircraft because it could take vantage points just to get kills.
ok! you guys are taking this way to serius, calm down, for blueshirtsfan its rather simple, if a player wants to use an airplane as transport he wants to get out where the action is well he cant, landing under fire woud make his plane a sitting duck so he need to land a bit further, so he still needs to walk then he woud rather use a jeep, they are about as fast as planes (obviusly if you look at the design, they wont be racemachines) and he can get out where the action is, and, why woud anyone use the vehicles as taxi anyway? ever seen a guy use a tank as taxi??? no he gets in to go faster, but when he is at the battlezone he wont just abandon his tank, he woud use it the battlefield vehicles where to hard to use for most players, so they were used as taxi, as long as you dont make planes to cheap, and to weak, they will be used as they are supposed to i agree, battlefield vehicles were used as taxi, especially the planes but that is why i mentioned it in the first place! its easier, but not as attractive, in battlefield you coud get kills with planetaxi in empires you coud make your team lose the game (waisting a big amout of money...) allso you can use the jeep in stead, being fast, and hard to hit so actually i think plane taxi woud be a rare occasion allso if you woud make planes expencive players will start being carefull with there precius planes from themselves (planes in battlefield spaun from themselves for free, so there worth nothing) if you really wanted SOMTHING to prevent airtaxi, then you shoud make it only possible to enter/exit planes when they are landed but i woud suggest to wait untill they are actually ingame and fully tested
Through this whole thread I've been argueing against people using it as a transport. lol this is aggrevating, have you read what I said before, my entire arguement is to prevent people from using it as a transport as a means to get into a infantry fight. We don't know they are slower then cheaps, and in either case, the plane can still get across maps faster as they can go over obstacles that are on a map. I can see this arguement true if the map was totally map, and thats only if the aircraft are slower. Did you read anything I've been saying? I said a few pages back jeeps are used as transports because they are faster. With this arguement, why would people Ram jeeps under tanks, why did people building turrets on walls and use them as ladder? I ahve the answer, to get an advantage. Sure in a perfect game. But there are people who are looking to get an advantage, or people who want to get to a place quickly to get kills. Honestly, have you read a single word I said? I keep repeating myself through this thread. And it's only going to be easier in Empires for people to use them this way but now they'd actually be hurting the team in taking money way from the team! Thats my point. You gotta be joking.... This is my arguement through this whole.... thread.... I want to prevent the people who will be wasting the teams money by improperly using aircraft. I've said this numerous times. It was said they were going to be making bigger maps to use for aircraft. This means a aircraft can get to point A to point B alot quicker then a jeep even if a jeep is faster. I'm guessing it would happen once in every 20-30 minutes of play. Especially if the battles are picking up in a certain area of the map thats far from either base. You have to much faith in players. It's like saying players won't be going into the maps to kill people, exploiting the game play. Yet I see this happen often. Maybe a couple times a week. It's annoying, and the thing with aircrafts is that the team won't always know it's happening but they will see the money going down. That won't change anything. People will still land on high hills and shoot infantry. That why I want the pilot class so that they can have long ranged weapons. I already said before I don't mind seeing how things play out. I made a suggestion in the suggestion forum in a class thread on something I believe will happen and I believe a class might be the answer. It's all I've been saying all along.
i see we both agree on 1 thing, to wait and see how it wil turn out, lets do that becous on all other we seem to talk besides echother and not solving the problem i can quote all what you say about my previus post, but honestly it wont make a difference
