To me the calculator seems like some sort of HIV suit from Half-Life 2. I like to think it's a combat assistant that can help you in many situations providing a variety of skills and information, for example targets but also health stamina etc. But that's more of a lore thing I think. Anyway, this makes me consider it should be more like a modular feature, that there should be no pre-made classes but only categories where you design your own class. For example "Support, Assault, Demolition etc". Picking support could allow you to either becoming an engineer with the ability to build and repair anything or a medic, for healing and reviving. Each class should have difference stats as far armour and speed are concerned at least and their arsenal should not be limited to smgs and shotguns. Yes, this means medic riflemen, but they would not have riflemen skills or armour. And vice versa roflemen should have the choice to play with close quarter weapons if they think so. So back to the topic. I like the idea of everyone having this device that gives enhances their role in the game but I don't like calling it calculator ((((( I think Empire medics should have something like the Medi Gun from TF2 and in general each class should have graphically different gadgets as it has been already mentioned. Furthermore, if all classes have a calculator, perhaps it should not take a weapon slot.
its only called calculator by players, its actually called "engineer tool". and what you mean by "if all classes have a calculator it shouldnt take a weapon slot", the amount of weapon slots is also only a variable. and the rest, yeah sure, i say this since eternities (among other drastic changes), but then, its the same as with xyas suggestion. its a enourmous change, its possible that its not received well by players - maybe even by you yourself, noone can predict all the outcomes of such change. but this sounds so negative. its not meant like that. i think the chores of the game should be equally distributed and this was the original intention as far as i got it. and its not that bad of an approach, some specifics aside.
thus why everyone calls it calculator. and idk why shouldnt it? sure more and different models would be nice, but i see no reason why one couldnt be "the calculator". nf smg2 looks like a hairdryer aswell, so what, if its how product design works on planet empires? :D
Well smg2 does spray hot bullets just like a hair dryer spraying hot air, makes sense to me... Also I am sad, I was wondering what could be done with just the scripts because it seems like a simple copy paste but giving calc to anything not engy doesn't want to work. If you put it in equipment slot you can't pull it out, when you put it as a primary weapon you can take it out by pressing 4 or whatever you have class equipment set to, not 2 which is your primary weapon, but it has no ammo and won't charge. I thought maybe it had something to do with ammo count because each class has its own ammo pool, but it's set to 0 on all classes, even engineer so I don't even know how it works for them. You can right click to pull up the build menu but you have a limit of 0 on everything, like it all looks like 0/0, and ammo crates can't be dropped either. How disappointing, I thought I had something fun to play with. I wasn't expecting all of the calculator functions to be limited to engineer only in the code itself.
didnt candles once said something about the calculator is no ordinary weapon and its woven into the build code and super complicated ...
Thanks for mentioning it though. As Mr.X said, this will need playtesting to determine what will work, so it might be a good idea to just fix it so that if you have that weapon you can repair, and perhaps even see if we can set those limits by class or something. That way, we could switch out just the scripts to test the feature.
+111111111 my tldr; all classes can build and repair at normal calc speed but with half the buildmagic points. engineer has normal build magic points. engineer can do it double as fast with repair upgrade. either; rifleman can place camera and turretlvl1, gren can place miniradar and mlturret lvl1, scout can place both camera and miniradar. engineer can drop both turrets and better camera and mini radars, and walls also refineries at the cost of wages. or; everyone can place everything, only engineer can place walls, upgrade turrets and his minicamera and miniradar is better.
id be happy already if ebuilding would get me points, ive probably ebuilt more in my empires career than some others with their calcs ...
That's the main reason I want it to be changed, e-building is not only slow but it doesn't give points, you end up being stuck building for a minute without receiving any points from it. But it also shouldn't come out of your ass, hence why give a calculator to everyone, even if all it does is build.
so this topic went from "calcs for all classes" to "just give us a point for building something" i cant really think of any reasons against it but i just want to point out that we went from ebuild to faster ebuild to faster ebuild+repair
It didn't go anywhere, and as I said in the first sentence this is just something to replace e-build, my idea was to give everyone a calculator so they can build and get points for it. Until anything is implemented this is just throwing ideas out there.
this suggestion would break the game for a simple reason - "why i should play engineer then? - why i should decide if i want to drive as gren or engineer with theire own special ability's in vehicluar combat?" i really hate to be that guy, but let me correct your list: Engineer: - Calculator can repair friendly buildings that's his main task, build & repair - and should stay the only unit excels at it! - Calculator can heal friendly units he also serves as a medic - Calculator can repair friendly tanks - Calculator can place Turrets - Calculator can place Walls both are used to fortify small FOB's or to climb obstacles - Skill: Repair Upgrade: does not affect tanks anymore would decrease it's use, lesser ppl equiping it at late-game tank drivers resulting in much shorter games because decreased repair capacity's the goal of every attack should be to win through good team coordination - not enemy team incapacitys! - Skill: Healing Upgrade - Skill: Revive Upgrade Grenadier: - Calculator can repair friendly tanks made him the only choice as tankdriver and thus op - Calculator can repair friendly walls same at the defender side, thats the job of engineers - grenadiers are supposed to fight back! - Calculator can repair Vehicle Factory too confusing - Calculator can place Walls make grenadier less OP ehm, this would made him more OP if he can build his own cover and "stairs" to reach elevated pos - Calculator is now used to defuse mines that would be a point, faster mine defusing - but needed to be minded over seperately! - Calculator is now used to detonate (9-mine) mines credit: A-z-K same as above, but effectivly making mines remote charges - im not sure how good that would be? :-/ - Skill: Vehicle Repair Upgrade: Same as repair upgrade but only for tanks again OP Rifleman: - Calculator can repair friendly turrets too confusing - Calculator can repair Armories too confusing - Calculator can place Ammo Box. self reammunitioning rifleman - very very bad idea, especially at the current ability to replenish grenades and shaped charges via ammo box! or endless LMG fire - great idea *irony* - further decreasing engineers importance! - Skill: Ammo Box Upgrade: Allows riflemen to place 2 ammo boxes. at least an option for engineers - but to decrease cooldown - 2 boxes are useless! otherwise that could be implemented with the rank system - just like with turrets&surveillance too Scout: - Calculator can repair friendly cameras/radars (including the big one) too confusing - Calculator is now used to sabotage buildings again, to complicated to add a tool for that but we clearly need more&clearer hints about such "hidden" abilitys! - Calculator can place cameras/radars scouts already have enhanced senses - a placeable cam would made them OP in theire sniper role! (place cam as decoy in a good viewable spot, lay down at the opposite pos and wait - whoever comes to destroy it gets monitored long befor he reachs your sights! - that might fit at other games but not empires!) - Skill: Surveillance Upgrade: similar to turret upgrade gives the ability to upgrade cameras/radars they are already very powerfull - further upgrades would made them OP (aren't they already got nerfed in range and ticks?) the engineer is a very weak class at raw combat compared to all others, his main role would only be shorten/decreased by your suggestions and made the others very versatile to a point where they get even more OP than they are already at theire tasks! at least you spend some time on the idea, hope my critic helps
from: recycling needs to give points (answered above/my latest post in this thread) lol, absolute opposite why you think e-build is stupid? in general e- functions?
You know, sometimes (quite often actually), I feel like I'm the only one who understand how this game works... Grenadiers are already the go-to class to drive vehicles, for the simple fact that they have defusal. Over 75% of the tanks driver in heavy fights are Grenadiers. So what would them having a calculator change? Well you could say it would suppress the need for engineers, but you'd be wrong, because tanks still need ammos. You could say it suppress the trip to the repair pad, but you'd be wrong, because it is often faster than repairing your own tank, and tanks need ammos. You could think, hey it makes their tank invincible if the guy can just repair it. But again, you'd be wrong, you still have to get out of the tank to repair, putting yourself and the tank at risk if you do it at the frontlines, or if you chose to fall back it is exactly the same as going to a repair pad. This is just one example of the terrible arguments you people come up with. Please use your brains.
Also, to those who say "it would be overpowered because calculators are faster than e-build", I don't have the maths behind e-build (could a dev give us the values?) but I made a simple test by building a barracks without repair upgrade, takes 1 minute 20 seconds because the calculator has to recharge. However it only takes 1 minute to build a barracks with e-build. So I am asking you, which one is more overpowered? Of course that means that if you have multiple people it becomes more effective, 20 seconds to build a barracks with 2 people instead of 30 seconds with e-build. But the fact remains, if you are repairing a building under-fire, you will do better with e-build than you would with a non-repair upgrade calculator, one more reason to want e-build gone. Implementing a calculator for all the classes would effectively be a nerf of the never ending barracks repairs.
... and you get what? quite OP?! (and you forget the fact that they can lay mines and still be a thread when they managed to escape vehicle befor blown up) wich is counterbalanced by the fact that they can't selfrepair&replenish - forcing them to relay on teamwork & retreats! Finished: you answering yourself why, negating your arguments! about the ammo, the self replenishing is indeed OP and ammo no real issue because of all the available ammo sources and their replenish rate! but that needs to be seen in coherence to the fact that aiming at driving is quite difficult and very limited by strange restricted elevation angles&terrain! (and yea, i understand the gameplay part of giving infantry a chance to close-by to a tank!) about "invincible", since they nerfed vehicle armor skill from 20% to 10% that isn't much of an issue anymore, but yea, an already OP tankdriver class that doesn't need to fear mines would just get more OP with the ability to repair themselfes inbetween fight! "you ppl" - yea, you are clearly the over pro, the lone survivor, the only one who understands how the game works ... and so on - just read your own text and ask yourself "did i use my brain"? ;-) maybe search them yourself or state a request at coding subforum ;-) well, i think the e-build, build tool and repair upgrade have to be adjusted then (later feel quite nerfed anyway!) Implementing a calculator for all the classes would effectively be a nerf of the never ending barracks repairs.[/QUOTE] lol, complaining about "never ending" repairs but suggesting to add repair tool to all classes (at least they end if the team "focus" fire or the building in question gets stormed by a squad! - teamplay is the key my friend, not buffing lone survivors!)
First off "OP" doesn't mean shit in combined arms games like Empires. Different classes are better at different things, Grenadier is better at driving and killing tanks, rifleman is better at dealing with infantry. That doesn't mean that either of them are "OP". I have no idea what that means, please speak english. Have you ever played 26vs26? No matter if you're Engineer, Grenadier, Rifleman or Scout in end-game tank fights you have to fall back at some point to repair your tank, you can't repair on the front lines, that is simply not possible. You cannot drive a tank and repair it at the same time, so if you want to stay at the front lines you will still have to rely on your allies repairing your tank to be the most effective. Not to mention that you need ammo. The people who are repairing your tanks will still need revive if they die to AoE damages, therefore you will still need Engineers, Your tanks will still get shelled by Grenadier support, therefore you will still need Riflemen Something something about scout, I actually can't find much to say about scout being useful during end-game tank fights. But you get the point.
Can I take this idea from an RTS point of view? Empires isn't just an FPS... In every RTS game I've played, there is always 1 "builder" unit. So to keep the parallels with the RTS genre, it makes sense to have 1 "builder" class. However, if all classes could construct buildings... Then surely this would relegate engineer to "medic" or "support" and he might as well be renamed that. Since the only unique thing he can do, is revive teammates.... From other games I've played, most people dislike playing medic or a supporting role. They'd rather be the stars of the show and killing everyone. So this may effectively reduce the options in the game and make the classes less distinct. So we'll have 3 main classes + support if anyone wants it... To me, effectively losing one of the classes would be a bad thing.
Except in most if not every RTS the builder unit is a non-combattant. So this is very different, not to mention the obvious about Empires being much more Battlefield than RTS. But... no? In my suggestion the Engineer is the only one who can drop turrets and walls, and you know how useful walls are. More to the point, my initial suggestion is to add Calculator to all the classes with NO SKILLS what so ever, ONLY BUILD. don't forget that guys. The skill part is just an extension of that idea. I mean... in scrims Engineer is already 95% support. Whenever I have a good squad I don't even shoot enemies unless they jump over my walls, all I do is revive and heal and repeat. Last sunday I had a squad with Paradox, Tony and Trickster, and literally all I did was place walls and heal them. And I'm sorry but I have to disagree, I prefer playing medic, in all the games I have ever played. I support people, allow them to play to their best.
...why you can't wait until im finished -.-' https://forums.empiresmod.com/index.php?threads/calculators-for-all-classes.20139/page-2#post-533039 grenadiers ARE OP, they excel at killing infantry aswell with theire instant shot mortars (btw, not realistic nor gameplay logic - it's a siege weapon!) - rifleman are just imba, but not more than a scout with shotgun! at the codebase btw (infantry_resists), grens have 0.3 against most damage types while rifleman have only 0.1 - tough rifleman start with 130hp, but healthskill gives you the same amount! maybe refer that part, so that i have a CHANCE to reexplain or correct myself if theres something wrong?! did you? - at 19vs19-32vs32 retreat gets nearly impossible because ppl love to clutter into pulks xP - infantry has no chance there! (deepends on map ofc, how many ways to the enemy, chokepoints, drivespace, terrain and ingame/match obviously resource availability and playerskills including commanders mapknowledge&buildingexperience are factors) scout gets so much nerfed that it's nearly useless, but still has some advantages - even at late-endgame! - but again, depends on map!
"wait until im finished" i didnt know that you couldnt post an entire reply in one go. Anyway onto the topic of "muh calc doesnt work". Make engineer repair all buildings the fastest.. While other classes repair some faster than others. But still retain the ability to repair. Infantry being useless in tank fights you say red? Utter bullshit. Rolfmans have stickies. Aka tank death bombs. Grens have mines and well.. Missiles and mortars. Engis have ml turrets and their rep tool to de rep tanks which usually throws them off and forces them to fall back. And finally scouts have sticky stuns. Which ive used to great effect in tank fights by forcing the weaker tanks t not be able to retreat due to them being stunned and focused down. Also tanks can still retreat during a chokepoint skirmish or otherwise, you HAVE to retreat even just slightly during a tank battle to repair and rearm. Even if your an engineer who fixes his own tank. And finally. Grens are not op.. This is coming from someone who used to main gren. Gren is by far not op due to the fact that their missile launcher is a fucking pea shooter late game. And by extension due to the fact mid to late everyones in a tank. Your mortars are ineffective against tanks as much as a ml. Riflemen fucking destroy an out of place gren. Which is fine. And mortars arent realaistic no. This is fucking empires. And gameplay logic is what we want it to be. And for a literal decade its been the way it is. Its not going to change its role cus one guy who cant play gren gets butthurt when his shotty engi or scout gets outplayed in cqc by a beast gren. Ps i wrote this on my phone. Hence thepoor formatting and no quotes.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Rifleman don't start with 130 hp unless they have hp upgrade, just like every other class. If you mean they effectively have 130 hp because of resists that only applies to infantry bullets. Grens have no resist to infantry weapons, only to tanks. I don't get the complaints of class imbalances, they are all fine. The only real problems is how a couple classes have trouble with what they should actually be doing, like grens have a hard time killing tanks and scouts... are scouts. For mr x I see this comment from candles in 2.6.5 release, which explains why ebuild is faster. The reasoning is sound too, it's terrible to actually ebuild things still. Allowed e-repair of buildings and increased e-build rate from 40% to 66% of engineer base build rate.
I haven't seen this thread before and normally I ignore all the shit suggestion thread but this one takes the cake. This idea would ruin empires. It's just that bad. The gameplay would immediately be completely turned on its head.
Of course it would, I will just take your word for it and close this thread... Thank you for your very valuable input.
