Building on buildings

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Tama, Jan 1, 2018.

?

Allow building on buildings?

  1. Only allow turrets to be built on buildings.

  2. Allow all buildings on all buildings.

  3. Neither of the above.

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  1. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    So I came across a post by JGF (in this thread) about the time turrets on buildings were accidentally allowed, and that reminded me; we should totally add this as a proper feature.

    I wanted to hear your thoughts on the implementation details, as well as gauge how many people actually want the ability to build turrets on buildings.

    In any case, I think it makes sense to make a few changes compared to the accidental earlier version:
    - Only turrets should be allowed on other buildings, as they are small enough that you can't just fit the corner positions onto a building and leave the rest floating.
    - The turrets are linked to the building below it; destroy the building and the turrets are also destroyed; same goes for recycling (and cancelling recycling).
    - You can only build on specific buildings; barracks, armoury, refinery.
     
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  2. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    In order for this to be even considered as an idea you need the following:
    - An equal number of turret pad on buildings for NF and BE, for example: if you can place 3 turrets on an NF barracks you should be able to place 3 turrets on a BE barracks.
    - Proper platforms on each building which are designed for turrets.
    - A new piece of code that makes it so when the building dies (or is recycled) the turrets are killed too.

    Even if manage to pull all of this, having turrets on buildings is a terrible idea, it's already a pain in the ass to fight them as infantry, why make it worse?
    Not to mention strategically it brings nothing more, in Empires spreading your buildings and especially turrets is important to their survival, placing turrets on top of buildings will just result in them dying at the same time as the building, while not providing any new angles of covers that you didn't have before.
     
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  3. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

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    Turrets on buildings ?

    well my first thought was is a good idea because you can save some area for other buildings like a second barracks but then if you think about it is kinda stupid
    -tanks cant aim that high if you place a armory on a high place with a ml on top of it the tanks are force too back up so they can aim on it
    -The turrets it self cant aim that low so placeing a turret on top of a barracks whould create a big death space
    -Placeing a turret on a refinery ? that is really stupid like where is the space for it ? well nf refinery has the space for it but not the be refinery
    -Turrets needs to be in the same hight for both be and nf buildings it whould create a advantage if the enemy turrets cant shoot above the walls
    -Turrets should only available on buildings that have the same hight from both be and nf buildings like VF,Barracks,armory,radar

    Personally i whould like to see walls that are higher than the current ones,walls that like covers 100 % buildings . it whould be harder for everyone to destroy the building behind it better than just simple turrets on top of a building. i mean these type of walls should only available for the commander engies should place the normal walls

    lets be real empires mod devs making walls higher whould be a easier task than turrets on buildings that gets destroyed if you destroy the building under it
    to make the wall higher you just need to increase the wall model and change some numbers. higher walls whould safe the base more than simple turrets
    i mean with walls that cover 100% of your buildings whould safe you from tank sniping

    Of course these type of walls can only dropped by the commander and this new type of wall whould not cover a vf completely just all other buildings
    and these walls whould replace the old one because you start like the old walls with a small version of it and than it can be build higher
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  4. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't have problems with the asymmetry that would arise from a straight up implementation. I don't see much, if any, use of placing turrets up on buildings, but armories would be pretty strong in many circumstances. Also the exploit potential thanks to being able to climb much higher up, coupled with the dumb parachute plugin...
     
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  5. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I have memories of these turrets having a better range because other buildings weren't blocking their view, a mg on top of an armory covers all around armory instead of one side thing. So a bunch of lvl 3s on top of them would murder anyone who came close. Also vaguely remember trying to rpg snipe them and the building would take the hit instead cause lol hitboxes. Those things said I don't remember being it too bad out side a couple of maps, mostly the more gimmicky ones like bootybay.

    Also I could be wrong but didn't the elevated angle meant those turrets could sometimes hit you behind walls, even if your crouched? I remember having to prone a bunch of times for some reason.

    Personally instead of having an engy go up there to build a turret I think it would be better if you selected a building and there was a turret icon in that bottom right thing with the move commands that let you add turrets and it would auto build in like 15-30 seconds, whatever no repair upgrade speed is. If only because it can be a bit troublesome to get on top of some of these buildings without building a wall first.

    Kinda want to build all buildings on top so I can upgrade from lol forts to lol castles.
     
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  6. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    Everyone has quite valid points.

    Cant say I dislike the idea of building them on specific places devs would choose, if done properly.

    I mean, I would be quite interested to see what people would come up with. ( allow some tiny bit of freedom? while having only some spots )

    Game also kinda needs some little "stupid" things like that xD (creativity/fun boost)

    But like absolutely, there are probably better things to do xD
    And yeah, this has potential for new exploits ( fun? xD )

    If someone feels like implementing such thing, I wouldnt mind. But I wouldnt "pay" much for this.
     
  7. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I agree.
     
  8. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I prefer devs to stop trying to change the game and just fix what's broken or what isn't working well.
     
  9. мrвlυeѕĸy

    мrвlυeѕĸy Member

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    How about... if you stack 4 lvl 3 turrets on top of each other you can upgrade to a Red Alert 2 style tesla coil... or 3 radars on top of each other and you get a victory pagoda.

    Maybe 4 raxes on top of each other upgrades them to a hotel - allowing you to collect rent when enemy scouts hide inside.
     
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  10. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Thanks for considering this. What I liked about the turrets on buildings is it enabled commanders to be more creative in protecting the base, and requiring fewer turrets to do so. A rifleman on a barracks can really troll players. It also enables a com to be more creative when constructing a base.

    The one thing we learned from Spartacus was we do like new features - as long as they are balanced and fun. I do think this was fun. Slowing down vehicles was not more fun.
    It will encourage more use of grenadiers since Engineers may not be able to get close by just dropping a wall and throwing grenades.

    Some potential bad things from this:
    1) It could be used help players to get to places on maps that are not intended.
    2) Putting down turrets on a building then selling the building resulted in hovering turrets was a bit OP. A hovering MG turret was pretty tough to get near. So if some physics of destroying the turret when the building was sold could be added - that would be better.
    3) I don't believe stacking turrets on top of turrets is really needed.
    4) I do agree it should be equal. If I can place four turrets on the corner of a BE RAX, I should be able to do the same for NF.
    5) As for fixing bugs - sure Zero Defect development means all new development stops when a bug is detected. No new development should be done until bugs are fixed. And there are probably a lot of opinions on what is a bug or intended game play.
     
  11. bunnyhopper

    bunnyhopper Member

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    Make it a research. Building fortification. Use different models for turrets that have modded collision box.. If players can't get on them then they can't use them to exploit.
    Under the new research you could also add increased building health.
    Could also limit to lvl 1 turrets and see how it goes.
     
  12. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    You know I coulda sworn someone told me the building upgrade research for turrets was something specific for turrets for some reason, but no you can have upgraded buildings of any type. That said the only values you can play with are starting building health, max health, and cost, along with changing the model. Though I wouldn't be surprised if you can change resists too, but with the way building research works you couldn't really do any incremental stuff, like getting explosive resist then kinetic resist, or just having that as a passive buff.

    I'm sure things could be coded in if someone had a lot of time, but at the moment which requires no real dev time you couldn't do fancy stuff like that. Still changing the model is kinda neat, Imagine upgraded armories which are a bit more fortified or just has a ladder to the top of the building for better defensive capabilities.
     
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  13. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

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    I agree with JustGoFly on his #2 and #3.
    Pros:
    + more variability - commander can use different aproaches in placing turrets;
    + 1 turret on top of armory or refinery can cover all directions;
    + easier for drivers - turrets not blocking way
    Cons:
    - to build something on top of building you need to get there first. Some buildings are hard to climb
    - turrets has limited elevation: what about blind zones near buildings?

    Sometimes blind zones near buildings can be good - you cant just run there and junp on top of MG. To avoid fire you need an APC or AFV - it will drop you safely in turret's blind zone.
    Building upgrade could be good solution. Comm when placing building have 2 options: simple and defended by turrets. Engies can place turrets on top of normal building in specific spots. When placing defended buildings it is more pricey and takes longer to build (2 stage?).
    What about reinforced buildings? (reserch - choose building to upgrade - call for engineer). Automatic doors on rax would be nice.
    And about "building on top of buildings" - it maybe not too bad, when armory or rax on top of VF (with ladders) but i dont want to see VF on top of refinery someday! Or column of 2-10 turrets on top of each other.
     

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