Building crackers and general grenade utilization

Discussion in 'General' started by BigTeef, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    I understand the need for Seismics but we have a lot of grenades that don't really do anything that is intuitive on design. I argue the name should be changed to thermite grenades and givin a small buff to damaging infantry, and maybe a buff to damaging tanks because thermite in itself is designed to deal with hardcore surfaces and metal.

    Also feel free to discuss other gernades here on trying to make them more intuitive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  2. Spike

    Spike Long Live The King!

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    I really have no idea who got high and decided to rename the engineer grenades from seismic grenade to building cracker its been called seismic grenade for years and there had been nothing wrong with it. Such a pointless change.

    Also the seismic grenades are fine as they are they don't need to damage infantry or tanks.
     
  3. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I remember a patch from spart doing it when siesmics did damage to infantry. It was awful, defending raxes was simply retarded. Also name was changed? That's dumb, I thought the reason they were called siesmics was cause they literally did little tremors to destabilize and damage structures, at least that was the in lore reason. Also had that earthquake effect on infantry so it still made sense.

    Any case I wouldn't want to split up concs or rename them, but I feel like there should be something to make it more obvious they disable turrets for 10 seconds or whatever it is.

    Also wouldn't mind an actual thermite grenade separate of seismics that could damage tanks and buildings, just make it a little less effective against buildings somehow. Shorter range might be a good idea, i dunno.
     
  4. Not Kidpaler

    Not Kidpaler Member

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    This is not a good reason. At all. People survived for millenia without a polio vaccine. People survived for a long time with horses. Seismic, the grenade itself, and the particles don't really convey the meaning of "Anti building", which is why it was changed. You see new people all the time throwing these grenades at tanks and enemy players, not understanding why they aren't dealing damage to them. Something has to change to make it more intuitive rather than saying "It worked for me".

    While I agree the name now is kinda weird, it should be changed from seismic unless the model or particles change to convey it's use better.

    Edit: IF its so pointless as well, why does it matter?
     
  5. MegaMLGgaming

    MegaMLGgaming Member

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    Lets get a bit into detail.

    How would an explosion be strong enough to cause a building to de-stabilize and not do damage to anything else. To concentrate that explosion in one spot would be the way to do it.

    Shaped charges, explosions shaped to pressure the explosion on one spot that would cause a pretty nasty shake to anything its pointed, a device like that really cant be made like a normal grenade and isnt really made to be thrown. But we could make up a throwable version since we already have tanks plopping out of nowhere.

    If we were to remodel the seismic, i say we should lower the throw distance because a thing like that would be pretty heavy.

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    Its gotta be light enough to throw and heavy enough to land charge facing down.

    Just an idea, would help lower the distance between the engies and the barracks making defending a bit more easy if just for a bit :deadimp:
     
  6. Not Kidpaler

    Not Kidpaler Member

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    I'd go even further and say have it just be a detonation pack.

    We already have a grenade that you throw and it barely goes anywhere, the sticky grenade. Thus, if someone uses those and then uses a similar engie grenade there could still be that disconnect. If it was just a simple detonation pack that'd be hard to associate with a grenade, make it even harder for engies to solo a barracks, and make engie a more balanced class.
     
  7. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    When does the game stop being awful for player counts under 20, or even 30 for bigger maps? I'd still like det packs as option, but limiting the engy like that is kinda makes it ass for lower pop.

    I should say that what the ratio of classes should be might be a thing to consider, and honestly I don't think empires works on that 25% split across the board. With the building aspect empires has 50% engys is the way to go, and having to rely on others to not suck simply sucks. Or you know, I'd rather have that gren shoot tanks then tiny turrets.

    Something to consider is simply making the the siesmic a little less effective against bigger buildings, wouldn't change it against turrets. Just so 2 engies can't clear a base out in under 10 seconds from all that splash damage. This would also give a place for det packs.

    Or for a fun idea make the det pack a nuke. Engy goes in, sets it up, then damage similar to a nuke happens. Have a scout sab everything first and you got yourself a winner.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  8. MegaMLGgaming

    MegaMLGgaming Member

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    Best way to solve this would be to remodel the seismic, make the priming time just a tad longer and add det packs as another option. Best way to get it in would be to make it take a while to prime and give it like 1 min or so for it to blow. Should make it either destroy the building or make the building be harder and take longer to repair both sound interesting but making repairs less effective on the building sounds like a fun way to deal with engies who wount come out of the rax.

    What do y'all think?
     
  9. Not Kidpaler

    Not Kidpaler Member

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    I like, it, now we just need a modeler to take this on and animate it. This also makes it harder to assault and lone wolf because you could make it so you only carry say 2 det packs and that destroys a building. However, you have to get close to it which is much harder than sitting behind a wall throwing nades continuously over the top, and it could be repaired in between both explosions.
     
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  10. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I had something about old scout sab written here and realized my problem with long timers is that empires is a fasted paced game, things in it should also be fast or at least have a constant interaction. Even if it's a really bizarre implementation nade spamming buildings makes things more exciting in a way because you constantly have to decide if you want to keep at it, or give up to pull out a gun or revive/build someone. Considering you want to drop a building right wherever you destroyed the enemy building it isn't like you can set it and drive off to the next objective either.

    Setting up the bomb then just guarding it like it's counterstrike could make it even easier to destroy said building, because now you can keep your gun out at all times. It's not there's a warning til a building takes damage so you have all the time to set it up. Though maybe it's easy to have a warning show up when explosives are detected near a building? Sweeping bases for hidden scouts isn't the most fun, I wonder if it's better looking for bombs instead?

    I'm still for det packs, but I would like you to consider it in terms of empires core gameplay. To which I say maybe rifles should get it? To round him out a bit(and prevent him from having sticky nades and thus ruining ninjas). Or like mega suggested and it prevents repairs instead of buildings for a bit.

    Wait I got it, Seismic generator. it's like someone kept tossing nades in one spot, except it's a device that can be disabled and can't be everywhere in the base at once unlike a engy with an ammo box. Works as a suitable replacement for seismic grenades, gives enemy team a warning building is going down, it's interactive in a bunch of different ways, it's great and I'm certain it's been suggested before. Just give engy concs or something like it to disable turrets at a distance and it'll be 10/10.
     
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