Buff Autobuild

that should read e build, and i'm going outside now to continue drinking

This only works with a removal/rework of scout hide. But I don't think engineer should be based around being a walking bitch who has to build everything. IMO e build should be .25-.5 of calc and there should be no repair upgrade. This pushes engineers towards revive which is a lot better for teamplay and tactics. With respect to this I think SMG2 could use a buff and turret build requirements reduced slightly. Also I think camera should be plantable like x seconds rather than a build. Like in NS EVERYONE contributes to the bitch jobs so its not a big deal with a large group everyone does it quick and moves on. In empires its like oh engineer? K build rax, build ref, drop ammo, build walls, build turrets. It can be seriously unfun sometimes trying to do the things that contribute to winning.

In general I think teams should look like a fairly decent balance of classes all through the game and it shouldn't be /gameover if a majority of the team wants to play other classes.

 

Fuck, well I didn't mean to include the stuff at the begining and this whole section should be a quote but I can't scroll up in these windows on my phone.

Basically this an allready considered idea we will hopefully test soon to see if it fails or not

 

Great! I'm so glad the new dev team is taking a lot of the old real gameplay changes into account.

 

So wait, no more repair upgrade advantage for engineers? Or can they e-build at an increase rate with repair upgrade?

And... what are you going to do about riflemen? Everyone is going to be riflemen and grenadiers, but mainly riflemen.

 

well if every class can build equaly good you seriously need
to take into account to lower the weapon of the e-builder
or else you will see people prone beside buildings and e build
while they shot stuff.

 

I am in 100% support of anything that even vaguely looks like a nerf to engineers. I can't believe people in this thread are bitching. What are you saying, we might see games with less than 95% engineers? Cry me a damned river.

 

E-build looks kinda silly, couldn't we give everyone basic engineer tools (just build, no auxillary functions) and the engie gets a pimped out tool with a different coloured screen and cooler particles (or a new model, but thats ridiculously unlikely) which fulfills the same functions as the old tool, with a few minor cosmetic changes to differentiate it?

 

Engineer would still need to REPAIR everything, e build would only work for BUILDING. So you still need calc and prolly repair upgrade to heal tanks and buildings.

I allready figured we'd have to make weapons deselect when building but isn't a nessessary feature for testing purposes. Worried about more global problems for testing first.

I considered this idea for months thinking about all the aspects it would effect before I even brought it to the devs(before I was even a dev) and they all accepted it would be a good thing to test, there has simply been more pressing matters to sort out for releases.

 

Yes but would an engineer be able to BUILD faster with repair upgrade?

 

First off, you need to calm down. You have been attacking a lot of people. No one is bitching about anything. Making the classes more balanced would be a good thing, making engineers totally obsolete would be a bad thing however. Instead of 95% engineers, you would see 95% riflemen, which in my opinion is worse. It would be the same as giving engineers a rifle, plus the ability to carry sticky grenades but taking away revive. People are going to go all riflemen.

Mayama brought up a very good point, and keef had already took it into consideration, excellent, people are thinking.

 

No, if they could build faster in anyway they would be designated building bitches. Repair upgrade would only effect REPAIRING, which is all the engy calc would do at that point

EDIT: I think this would be far from making engy obsolete, even with this in place engineers are extremely powerful, just hopefully less of them on the field as the overpowing numbers they are now.

 

Okay then I do not agree with this idea. You would totally kill the engineer class as I stated before. I agree with simon's original post, e-building would amount to about 1/2 to 3/4ths of engineer ability to build. If you make it so that engineers build at the same rate as the other classes, then everyone will want to be a riflemen. You will have a few regulars who will be revive engineers, but the majority of people will become riflemen. You will have just replaced one overplayed class to another.

Next thing you will have to worry about, scouts and ninja raxes, which may not be a bad thing, in fact, may be a good thing. You may get more people playing scout (albeit, they are hiding crawling punks) and give teams that are struggling chances to get back into the game, which would be good.

I see no bad things happening with grenadier.

The engineers should have at least some advantage building over the other classes.

My proposal, pretty much what simon originally said plus some of keefs. Get rid of "Building tool" by engineer. Only engis repair with engineer tool. Everyone e-builds, but engineer ebuilds 1.5 to 2 times as fast as the other classes. Now I do not know if I would base the engineer e-build time based on what they do currently with repair upgrade or without, but I would lean towards with repair upgrade.

 

Well, I think you are wrong. Why would people be engineer if not for a building advantage? Tank? No, they should be gren. Turret/camera? How many of those do you see in game. Revive? You will have a few who will still help the team, but most won't. Destroy buildings? Yes, they would be good at this, but most people don't take advantage of this now. Grenadiers, scouts are also pretty good at this. Repair other's tank? Don't make me laugh. Dropping ammo? Hard as hell to get people to do so.

Why would people still be engineer?

Don't get me wrong, engineer would still be an extremely valuable position in any game HELPING OTHERS. Problem is, you will be working with a bunch of people who do not play well with others. You would move engineer completely into a support class, and unless you have a good team, people will not want to play that role. Imagine playing TF2, and you are attacking, can you find that medic? No one wants to be that medic.

I am just saying make engineer equal to riflemen in building time, and you shift from 95% engineers to 95% riflemen.

 

Ya I think you are undervalueing engineers far to much.

But even if what you say comes true it's hardly the end of the world to push engy to pure support class. Our engy is far more valueable than both the tf2 engy and medic combined. If 95% players go rifleman at the begining it wouldn't be so bad, the 95% would turn to grens in the later game to counter vehicles which is all the better.

But I honestly don't see it panning out like that what so ever.

All said and done we really just need to test it to know.

 

You had me until the last sentence, then I had to come and reply. You have more faith in the people who play empires then I do. I think most of the people who play the game play like they are idiots. I would like to see more class balance, and I'm not sure why think too many engis are bad.

If the problem is too many people play 1 class, then exchanging it for another class would still be bad. Stuff get build now, is it a problem? If you are changing class from gren every time you spawn, though you are trying to be helpful, you are playing gren wrong.

My fear is not irrational, it is thought out. I would not be posting here if I did not at least think the idea has its merits. I have many times been accused of having irrational fears about this game, to only be right in the end. I admit, this is one of the ones I am more uncertain about. I do like the idea, just give the engineer a minimal boost in building (1.5 times). And I am not saying don't test it, I am saying think about it.

Oh no. I do not undervalue engineers. They are extremely useful when used correctly, they aren't used correctly. And used too damn much in regular games. Good clan matches in the days had far fewer engineers for a good reason.

There is the disagreement we are having. It is in your fifth sentence. What is the problem with engineers now? Too many of them. We agree on that. I think we don't agree on why too many of them is bad. I think you could take one problem, and give it better weapons. You think better weapons solve the problem. In the end all the others classes lose, you would see more riflemen.

 

Engineer is the most powerfull class ingame,
one engi as squadleader hiding behind a wall spamming
squadheal and revive can destroy any threat (exept nukes)
or a single engi with a brain that uses his real power:
FORMING THE BATTLEFIELD with walls can easily make his
squad, facing two times the enemys, win.

However most people dont even think about using the engi capabilitys.
Engi is the only class that can deny the enemy the advantage of a
superior position. Just well as I already said people dont get it, count
the engis on your team and count how many walls are usually placed.