Assistant Points

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Dragoon, Feb 28, 2008.

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Scoring system

  1. I like it, as it is

    4 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. Add TFC2 like scoring (assistant kills)

    6 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Assistant kills + points for damage delivert

    3 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Add just points for doing damage

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  5. No above. I want something different

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Dragoon

    Dragoon Member

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    For me TFC2 set several standards what a good teamwork based game should have.
    Beside the the cool feature that your own team members and structures can't block you, it is the scoring system.
    Not only the one who delivers the final blow get points,
    but also the others attacking the target get points. The same points like they did the kill, even the one that was healing the killer got his share.

    Thats what I would like to see in Empires too.

    When you are bombarding the enemy, or overheating a tank with plasma, nukes and a other one finish him off,
    you should get points too. It's not friendly if you put 3 stickies on a BE Heavy, a other player gets the final blow,
    and the game treats you like you did nothing.
    A concrete example is taking down refs or barracks, you can do 99% damage but only the one who did the final 1% get the point.
    Sure there are squad points but they don't offset that as it ought to be. Rewarding all players that were assisting to take down a target is the way to go.
    Maybe you should also get points for doing damage overall.
    Say we a tank was harassing your base and you manage to shoot him red, but he take off before you could send the final "message".
    Why not get points for say we as example, each 200 points damage done?
    Since points can be turned into skill upgrades...
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2008
  2. Dubee

    Dubee Grapehead

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    Yep I agree.. All the points should work like the engineer tool.. Go by damage and not who killed him.. If your an engineer and you build up your turret to the last little bit and some other person finishs building the turret for you he doesnt get the points.. I think engineers get the majority of the points on classic maps and this could help the other classes level up a little easier.. people would actually shoot that tank even knowing that it wont get them a kill.. I also agree that this will help teamwork.. People will have more reason to help each other

    and oh yeah I think this has been suggested before
     
  3. Sherbie

    Sherbie Member

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    This was in Dystopia as well, and I really liked it.

    It would make even more sense on here though, cause points actually DO something here.
     
  4. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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  5. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    if you're consistantly doing damage at a higher rate than other players, then you're more likely to get the kill and the point. so the chance of getting the point depends on how much damage you dealt, which means that at the end of the match you'll have as many points as you deserve

    whats more, the chance of getting the final shot is pretty much proportional to the damage you inflict. same principle: all though you may have a kill stolen from you sometimes, you're equally likely to steal a kill from someone else. as such you get the points you deserve.

    now if krenzo and the team had unlimited time, completely unlimited time to code, then I would say that this was an idea to think about, but the depth and detail of the coding needed to do this is really too much. perhaps with orange box you could steal the TF2 system.
     
  6. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Dont argue that its to difficult to incorperate. Krenzo could have a light switch to this feature for all we know.
     
  7. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    I don't think it's all too hard to code in, just detect who did damage to something before it was killed, and give them points for it.
     
  8. Dubee

    Dubee Grapehead

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    What about all times you put all the time into killing an enemy ref and some tank or gren comes up shoots 1 shell and gets the point after you spent over 2 mins doing damage to it.. I think this is worth any amount of time it would take to implement it..

    It changes the way I play the game because I dont want to waste time to help my team because it wont get me points.. Instead of helping kill buildings im mining vfs and barracks because those are easier points.. I think this feature will help team work and the noobs who cant get more then 2 skills in a 3 hour game
     
  9. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Cover fire will actualy be worth some thing!
     
  10. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    You shouldn't get the points until the enemy actually dies though. Doing 100 damage to an enemy with health upgrade shouldn't get you a point unless someone else actually kills him.
     
  11. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    If he retreats bleeding and beging for a medic, its still a victory.
     
  12. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    those that want to know how a system would have to work so that you got the right amount of points depending on how much damage you did and you didn't get extra points by damaging again a player that heals and so that losing a firefight and your enemy then healing doesn't get you points as it shouldn't, read this

    http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=1293&page=3

    sorry beerdude for being so dumb lower down.
     
  13. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    Yes yes and yes. It always feels dump if you give cover fire with a hmg or
    assist tanks with a dumg apc but you get nothing by doing it.

    I bet the scoreboard on average pub games would change a bit with this ^^
     
  14. Superlagg

    Superlagg Member

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    If you give points by damage, if you help someone kill someone, nobody gets the points. Think about it, if you get a point per hundred damage, assisting someone kill an enemy infantry wouldnt give them any points unless either of them killed someone earlier. Similar thing may be the case for tanks, also adding that how do you balance the tank damage point value if all the tanks have different HPs because of armor? Damage to hull is meaningless, hull dies in one or two hits. Damage to armor? Tank could retreat and repair or have regen and you'd get points while its still alive. Its just too impractical with the damage-points system.

    With the assist system that awards points to all (2, 3?) the attackers, not only is it somewhat self balancing in a way, but it would encourage more teamwork, as all participants of an attack, not just the last attacker, get rewarded for their efforts. DUMGers would get points for helping add DPS, stickynaders would be more rewarded for running up an almost meleeing a tank, Bio weapons become more useful and rewarding, and other team-vital but ultimately thankless things get a lot more rewarding and therefore gives more reason and want to do it. Just because TF2 had it doesnt mean it's not good for here or that it's off limits, they brought in a good amount of good ideas that other games, including this one, should take example from.
     
  15. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Lagg the damage point system is self balenceing. It rewards for effort. not for victory. Thus even a lossing side can feel rewarded.
     
  16. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    I read all this and I agree with everything spoken here.

    I really do like the way Dystopia does its point system. Doing the same here should be no problem.
     
  17. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    the losing side should definately not be rewarded. that's completely against the point of it, and would be one of the core principles when adding the points based on damage system.

    the whole point of points is to reward completion of something. sniping 3 people with body shots, then dying, and them all healing would certainly not be worth a point for you, because you've done f*** all to help the team.
     
  18. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    thats 150 dmg that they had to get heald. I say win!
     
  19. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    no it's really not a win. doesn't help the team. completely against the principles of getting points. whats more if the enemy gets points even though the damage is healed, it creates a negative reason to heal people. healing a person that's certain to die, such as someone currently being shot at, will only give the enemy extra points.


    the only problem with this idea as i see it, is that it may encorage players to damage the enemy when there is obviously no chance of killing them. for instance, sitting on the hill on dustorm and attempting to snipe people inside the ruins, doing very little damage but getting points. a solution to this is possible!

    SOLUTION:
    you only get the points when that player dies. so killing a normal player has the normal effect, and the points are shared between groups of people that do it. when a player is healed, the damage that is taken off them is in reverse order. so say a guy wounds a soldier to 50 heath. then the guy gets healed back up to 75, before being blown apart by a HE arty shell 200 meters away. the HE arty gets 75 "damage points", and the guy that did the initial 50 only gets 25, becuse some of hit was healed.

    another example:
    NF1 gets shot down to 10 health by BE1
    NF1 heals fully
    NF1 gets killed by BE 1, BE 1 is awarded 100 damage points in total (not 190, as would be before)

    And finally, another example showing the "older damage" being removed first.
    NF1 get's shot by BE1 down to 60 health.
    NF1 get's then shot down by BE2 to 20 health.
    NF1 medics himself back up to 80 health.
    BE1 kills NF1.
    in this example; BE1's origional damage of 40 (which took him down to 60) was the first bit of "wound" to be healed when the NF1 healed himself back up to 80. also, 20 points of the 40 that BE2 did were healed up, but this was only after the first 40 points of damage from BE1 had been used up (because that damage was older).
    so in the end: BE1 gets 80 for destroying the last 80 hit points, and BE2 get's 20, because of the 40 he dealt, 20 was healed.

    this solution also means that if you were in a firefight and you loose, you don't get any points. you would however, if an ally then finished off the guy you were shooting before he had a chance to heal. This solution also doesn't make any changes for Reviving people, but as currently you get another point for killing the revived person again anyway.


    this solution which is the only fair way to mean that the points your team gets for getting a kill is their share of the full 1 point. It means that the server has to register and remember exactly who did the damage to whome and in which order. in other words, the only fair way to do this will create network traffic AKA lag. that fact coupled with the excessive amount of coding time this suggestion would require and the fact that you do get points already based on the damage do deal the opponeant due to the probablility of you getting the last hit.

    the belief that you are getting less points than you deserve is truely an illusion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  20. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    but thats too complicated just adjust to points per lvl. 150 per level.
     

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