1. Trolling 2. It's easy to code, just copy the tank base, make it float and remove all references to water da,age 3. I've yet to find one. 4. It's hardly effort, it's a 2 second job, now stop restating things we've already been through. It doesn't require coordination, you can still use the amphibious feature if it's empty, loading it up is tough but rewarding. Thanks mr Sarcasm. We should be rewarding people for teamwork, not punishing them for lone-fighting, a lot of the time you can't actually find your team, and a lot of situations don't need proper teamwork. If I have 2 tanks, and I have to be a veteran in the AFV, vs a noob in the LT, that's an imbance. How can you say that a lack of skill makes something not balanced? Balance should stay between units, whether they're in a noobs hands or a veterans, at the moment, vet vs vet in open LT combat the NF will win, we needn't change this, that's their advantage, we should simply make the AFV for an equal, but different role. I'm sure a lot of you are continually yelling at suggestions because asymmetrical balance is more fun, well this is a damn good example. [/rant]
I dunno what your coding experience is but if it is indeed simple to add, it still like I said earlier can bring up a lot of new bugs and exploits.. Thats one reason 2.0 took so long.. Krenzo would implement one little thing and a shit storm of bugs and exploits would appear..
-_-' this whole thread is full of dull points. There is no major problem with afv's. The fix for this problem doesn't fix anything. /end
1. People need a reality check; I would say you are the one trolling the forums with useless suggestions... 2. Currently things float in source through physics calculations; it is pheasable in single player only, if you use the same floating simulations as in right now, there is a high chance that the following will happen: 1) Server recourses are eating up by all the floating junk 2) The floating AVF's are doing barrel rolls in the water, or flip over once they fire a single shot in the water... So the solution is a little bit more compled; You think the tanks themselves were easy to implement? and just saying "Make it float" is over simplifying something. Even if a hacked up version can be made, it doesn't add anything to gameplay besdies a gimmicky feature. Your intention is to balance the AVF? then balance it, don't add tacky features to it; so what it can float on water? Ill just blast it appart from the shore; they are balanced the same way even if one can float. 3. MValey - The river and the dam provide natural choke points via the bridges; where entire tank columns can be held down by a single grenadier with a few well placed mines. Slaughtered - The small lake in the middle seperates the two choke points, making you choose one path to the enemy base. Cyclopean - the middle water provides a limiting area to where you can cross; giving some predictability as to where the enemy will come from Isle - Water is used to naturaly define the battle area without cliffing the entire thing in, also some spots can only be traversed by a CV all other tanks will sink Essentialy every map can be reduced to that of Dustorm; one of my least favorite maps because it is so open. While staying on the original topic, on every other map that doesn't have water, the AVF is still in your words "Gimped" against the light, so this again is not balancing. Water is simply not a major feature of the game... 4. Oh great, then you will be able to do all of that; so I agree, there is no problem in this regard... On the few maps that use water; if you though APC rushing was bad, or a longe grenadier caused alot of trouble imagine an APC or an entire AVF full of them.. Again, I restate; this is not balancing, this is slapping on of tacky features that serve no real gameplay purpouse, as it stands the AVF doesn not "Suck" don't know where the notion came from...
1. Let's not get into a shitty flame war. [I started this, sorry] 2. Simply give the AFV a keepupright constraint [which is already on all vehicles, ever noticed why it's really hard to flip tanks? It's not wait, it's a keepupright constraint] 3. Mvalley: You couldn't get the AFV out if you tried. Slaughered: Probably the main thing against this, but slaughtered isn't that enjoyable anyway. And about 2 or 3 MLs would just stop them easy Cyclopean: I doubt very much whether this would even affect the maps gameplay at all. Isle: The AFVs will have roughly 2m extra moving space, and I've driven around most of that map in jeeps, and very rarely did the jeep take damage. Fuck Duststorm, I agree with you totally. 4. I'm not a dev, I think they'd be pissed [actually, no, they'd just ignore me] if I just ripped empires open and jammed code straight in. APC rushing is not an AFV, APCs carry an infinite number of troops, AFVs carry four. I've had very little trouble from lone grenadiers, and when there's 4, there's less margin to miss, isn't there? P.S. *AFV
Giving an AFV a keep upright constraint means it can't be flipped, ever, which is bad because it'll survive more than normally. Even if it's just enabled in water, it can't flip over from explosions or terrain.
I think that giving Standard Cannon good damage (as it was in 1.07) will make LT vs AFV much more balanced.
Y'know, I don't think it's the cannon that makes the AFV a drag. I think it's because plain armor sucks. As it is now, the LT and AFV have a base health of 150 before armor. Each layer of plain armor only gives 30 health. That extra layer of armor does not help in the early game as much as speed does. If the LT started with only 100 health, however, the AFV's durability (in addition to that extra layer of armor) begins to look a whole lot better. Problem with that change is, you've got to account for the RPGs as well... Should we even be considering the RPGs when discussing tanks? In this thread, for that matter?
I'm not gunna argue with you, you're a mapper, you know this stuff ;D But keep uprights can be weakened, we only need a tad to keep the cannon up. Think airboat keepupright, divided by 2.
The biggest failure of the afv is that you have some blind spots around his ass. In a light tank you can always check your surounding.
I personally think the AFV is the worst vehicle in the game. It isn't balanced well with it's NF counterpart, the LT. A stock LT can kill a stock AFV 90% of the time. As a commander I always go DU on BE because the AFV is just so pathetic. Please replace the AFV with something else in the next release... No offence to the Devs...
What about balancing the two to each fight the other? The LT is small and fast, and lightly armored, the AFV is bigger and slower but has more armor. So give the AFV a different cannon, a cross between a DUMG and a standard cannon, low drop off, higher ROF, and generally easier to aim, the downside being that the DPS is slightly worse than the LT, the plus side being that you can hit the fast moving LT easier with it. This encourages the LTs to be used for raiding, appear out of nowhere, close range before the AFV spots you, and blow the crap out of it, while in a head on charge the AFV has the advantage with the better gun. It's similar to the skulk vs marine balance in NS, marines can wipe out a charging skulk but one which hides in the ceiling and drops onto a marine will get an easy kill. It takes the tanks and gives them each a role in which they can excel. It keeps (even adds to) asymmetry, reduces the big required skill gap between AFV and LT pilots (I find LTs much easier to use) and stops people whining.
Wow, It's almost like this suggestion made sense. Good thing its so new and surprising. Just giving it that extra 20 weight to work with has balanced it as far I see in any of my testings.
I love how people magically expect the developers to pull new vehicles out of their asses in a couple of weeks.
Ah, okay. He doesn't represent the majority, we just want a quick fiddle with the stats to make it work good, yah? :D
Even to just cut down the AFV is a lot of work. The geometry needs to be modified so that it looks natural, the texture needs to be redesigned for the shorter AFV, and the collision model needs to be redesigned. Hell, I'm not even a developer of models, so I'm probably missing like 3 steps.
Well actually modifying an existing model is surprisingly easy. You delete polygons you don't want, move the rest in or along, and then stick them back together. Doing something like taking two or three feet off the back of the AFV would be easy for example, as would making it shorter. The main issue would be redoing the texture as you said, which could be a bit of work if you weren't careful, although if you could preserve the UV map from the last version of the model then most of the texture would be fine. Collision models are just simple versions of the existing geometry so that shouldn't be too complicated. Although yes, a stats mod would be much easier to do and could probably fix the problem.
