A simple question about the future of Empires development

Discussion in 'General' started by Xyaminou, May 16, 2017.

  1. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Following a discussion with Thexa I think it's time to make it clear what people want.

    Because I don't want people to have to register to these forums I am going to use strawpoll, please send it to as many Empires players as possible.

    http://www.strawpoll.me/12977761

    New Features at the cost of game breaking bugs.
    A more stable game at the cost of slowing down the development, taking time to revert and fix the bugs.

    EDIT: sorry to whoever already voted you're going to have to revote again on the new one as I derped some stuff.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  2. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Refresh the page guys, new strawpoll, the other one was derped.
     
  3. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    New features :P
    But the next new feature should be quick revert update button :P

    I mean the usual low activity for testing, made me many times consider, if it wouldnt be better simply testing new versions "live"...but if something goes wrong, simply revert and fix it.

    But Iam not sure how problematic reverting is from the dev standpoint, or what issues can come from that.

    I guess it might make things seem more messy, or unstable.
    But it might also make "testing" much more effective...which is currently the main problem IMO (mainly, people have no interest in testing...and maybe also there arent that many tests)
    And additional tests could be done separately if needed, or something specific tested.

    ...but that all really just depends on how fast can you press the "revert update" button :P

    Bugs or instability, I dont mind. Especially at the price of new features.
    Them not being fixed/reverted for some time, while game breaking. Now that can be a problem :P

    So I just wonder. Why is reverting usually not being considered?
     
  4. Thexa4

    Thexa4 Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Reverting individual features is something that is often considered and is something our workflow is optimized for. Reverting whole versions on the other hand seriously impact the speed at which developers can work. It is also an action that is not tested regularly and has a high probability of causing more problems.

    The problem with version 2.13 was that it contained a set of features (javascript hud, turret rotation, vehicle prediction, static analysis code fixes) that were interdependent / were built on top of each other. This made it impossible to revert the individual features responsible for the issues.

    The reason I try to push people to help us test betas instead of testing on the live version is that a system like that requires a person to be continuously available to monitor the situation and revert if needed. Given that developers are not paid to work on Empires, paid work and other obligations have a higher priority. This means that it's very probable that there will be moments that I'm not available when it becomes apparent that there are issues with a released version. Better testing during betas significantly reduces the probability of that happening.

    So if you want a more stable Empires, please test the beta locally and join us during testing so we can fix issues before they become a problem. That would give a way better experience for all parties involved :)
     
  5. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    ugh... why do I even bother replying...

    You won't get enough people to do significant bug hunting.
     
  6. Wired_4fun

    Wired_4fun Member

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    Im starting to get the feeling that maybe other people want things that you don't want X, maybe, just maybe, people want new features instead of you're so called 'stability.' The game is pretty decently stable, and Ill admit I crash once or twice, but usually it's pretty far and few between. Besides we might as well get some new shit in a game THATS OVER TWELVE FUCKING YEARS OLD.
     
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  7. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    New Features for sure. The game has gotten kind of stale, theres no reward for playing, and it's devolved into simply who has more vets. New features can maybe shake this up a bit.

    Also, the turret rotation was a bugfix for the second seat but apparently that was forgotten about. A bug that has been complained about since Sourcepires.
     
  8. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I voted for new features, but if that stands for hats and the like, I should kill myself
     
  9. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    The people in your avatar are wearing hats ...

    Actually everone's avatar in this topic is wearing a hat
     
  10. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    How many people in this thread condone hats?
     
  11. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Fix game, new feature, fix game, new feature.

    Why do we need to pick one over the other.
    Fix the fucking game, then put in new bullshit and fix whatever shit broke from the new feature and rinse and repeat.
     
  12. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Okay apparently I need to clarify the "more stable" part.

    This doesn't mean we wouldn't get new features it just means we would get them at a slower rate because developers would take the time to revert commits and properly fix them before moving on to the next release.
    Which they are not doing right now, right now it's release new features with lots of bug, fix the bugs in dev, release the new features and bug fixes for the previous version while also introducing new bugs.
    The result is the game is permanently crippled with bugs and people are leaving.

    More stable would mean, release new features, give it a couple of days and if the game has too many bugs rollback, fix the bugs in dev, release the previously mentioned new features with their bugs fixed, give it a couple of days, if there are still bugs repeat. If not give it a week or a month and then release new features, give it a couple of days...

    So you don't have to chose if you get new features or not, you have to chose at which rate you get them. I guess the poll is irrelevant because people don't seem to understand what I meant.
     
  13. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    So, if the poll had shown the other way you would have pointed out it would have needed to be more stable right and that we should stop with new features? That's my guess.
     
  14. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    It literally says right there:
    Development = new features.

    My previous post was merely a clarification of that sentence.

    I never said we should stop getting new features, you obviously either didn't understand what I meant or haven't read it at all.
     
  15. Wired_4fun

    Wired_4fun Member

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    10/10
    Ignore the vote it didn't go my way, so now I'm going to cover my ass with bullshit.
     
  16. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Just go fuck yourself wired.
     
  17. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  18. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    It's a compound issue isn't it though. Assuming for arguement's sake that
    1. Introducing new features wil always have some chance of introducing some bug
    2. Bugs will often not be found until proper playtesting of at least 4 hours with say 15v15 players (and often even then, with particular maps, servers, client setups, etc) - comnpletely arbitrary numbers I've pulled out of my ass btw.
    3. Sufficient playtesting isn't currently available to developers to find & fix most bugs prerelease.
    I'd think the best way would be to allow the people doing the development to specify their ideal requirements for playtesting and find a way to meet those and not push patches until that is done.
    No playtests, no patches.

    But that's something of a catch-22 if you don't have enough people to populate a playtest.
     
  19. MegaMLGgaming

    MegaMLGgaming Member

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    Were basically back at 50/50 on the polls, what now?
    New features and then focus on the bugs from the features?
     
  20. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    This gonna divide people even more.... Vets wants stability and balance changes and gonna burn anyone who don't agree, new people want something F-cking NEW in this old game and are whatever what gonna win, because there are other things to do.
    Well, If people want make war in forums, then just add Mr. Die, it gonna be like instant soup. [jk]

    For full seriousness i think Game need something fresh. It would be easier to just make big bag of bugs and fix them at once than just make small bug bags and then complain about how slow everything goes. Devs are nearly not existent and thinking like it is big dev studio is wrong. Fixes gonna be ultra slow and this game is old. That means if less and less people gonna come here then no mater what gonna be fixed, nobody gonna care. There are other games, ya know? Empires need to show something freshly than just think that Empires have super priority in people minds. No new fun things? no interest. Fix don't give ++ in interest of people, remember that people often just comes and go. Of course i don't mean serious bugs don't have effect, but in serious matter, only balance is salt creating. Crashes and stability issues are more random and it isn't ultra issue that isn't hard to just re-launch the game.
    Additionally i can say that many people have different approach for game. For new features it would be handy to know what majority of people wants from game...
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017

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