Current situation: At the moment the Scout class is generally seen as useless für 90% of the time and even I, as a long time fan of the playstyle, tend to agree with that. Let´s just take a look at what a scout can do and at the alternatives: 1.Sabotage turrets to support an attack. He needs to be close to it and stand there for a few seconds to accomplish this task. Against MG Turrets he needs to slowly sneak up to it with "Hide" or just be really fast. Generally a nearby enemy will kill him most of the time while doing so... Alternatives: Tanks, grenadiers and engineers can do the job much faster and from a certain distance. Also they can destroy turrets instead of just deactivating them. Usefulness: Small, as other classes can do the job faster and better and most of the more important frontline turrets are guarded by someone. 2.Sneak into the enemy base to sabotage the buildings (Barracks, Armory, Radar, VF, etc.) and disrupt their production. The building will have it´s HP reduced to 50% and also suffer some other negative influences (like spawning players start with 50%HP in barracks). Another very popular scout tactic is campic a barrack for kills. A skilled scout can be a real annoyance to the enemy team, but it takes a lot of time to sneak in, it´s risky and you will most likely be found after a short time if the base isn´t abandoned. Sabotaging is also very helpful in combination with an engi who can destroy the sabotaged buildings much faster (scout+engi are faster than 2engies against bigger structures). Alternatives: None really, except from just destroying the stuff with brute force. Usefulness: Situational. A good scout can be a pain in the ass, but you need a good opening to sneak in and it takes a great amount of time you could have spend in more useful activities. 3.Ambushing enemies and killing them. Alternatives: Take a rifleman, as he kills much faster and without wasting time sneaking around. Usefulness: Depends on who you kill and where. Most of the time a rifleman is much more useful at this. 4.Sitting around while sniping with the Scoped Rifle, lulz. Alternatives: Take a rifleman, as he kills much faster and can absorb more Damage with "Dig In". Usefulness: Small. It can confuse inexperienced players, but the overall killing power is far inferior to the rifleman´s. 5.Stunning tanks with the stickys. Stunned tanks will overheat and are most likely doomed against other tanks and anti-tank units. Especially useful against the Command Vehicle and bigger tanks, which can´t be destroyed that easily. Alternatives: A Rifleman´s sticky could destroy most small tanks in the beginning instead of just stunning them. Usefulness: Situational. It will often fail. 6.Using the stamina bonus of a scout as squad leader to reach certain points with engineers as fast a possible. Alternatives: None. Usefulness: Can be very useful at the beginning, but after that the player will most likely change the class 7.Sneaking around and "scouting". Alternatives: Everything else. You are just wasting time. Usefulness: None. 8.Throwing smoke and concussion grenades for distraction. Alternatives: None. Usefulness: Situational, but most of the time you will distract yourself and your team as much as the enemy. 9.Finding other scouts with "Enemy detection". Alternatives: Cameras or careful teammates. Usefulness: Can be useful when a skilled enemy scout is sabbing your buildings but that is seldom the case. Main problems: - Almost everything the scout does, revolves around the "Hide" skill. A scout without "Hide" is nothing more than a crossover of all the disadvantages of Riflemen and Engineers, with the ability to sabotage (which is almost useless without "Hide") and binoculars (which are useless in general). - Doing something the scout-way is always risky, takes too long and isn´t even worth the risk most of the time. - Sabotaged buildings can just be repaired without any loss. - Scouts need at least 2 skills to work effectively, but get very few points in general, as they do less kills than riflemen and grenadiers and sabotaging takes too much time in comparison. Solutions: Natural abilities and equipment: - Scouts should have slightly increased movement speed (5-10%). It accelerates their work and also makes sense in a logical way as they have much lighter equipment than the other classes. - Scouts are able to hide without a skill. This natural "Hide" ability works like the "Hide" skill before, but any recieved damage will instantly blow the cover. - "Hide" should erase already existing target markers on the scout. It´s just too easy for a commander to screw a scout over, even if said scout is careful. - Sabotaged buildings should slowly lose health. Of course this should be no danger for greater structures which are guarded most of the time, but unguarded buildings and especially turrets should get destroyed after 1-2minutes without repair. A scout should get points when a building gets destroyed from sabbing. - Slighty improve the damage of the sticky grenades or raise the maximum ammo to 3. - An unique primary weapon set different from the engineers, consisting of the scoped rifle, a shotgun (which is already planned afaik) and some new SMG (which is similiar to SMG1 but has a slightly better accuracy). - The scouts should be able to give multiple targets to his squad with the binoculars. These targets shouldn´t disappear as fast as they do now. Also the com should not be able to give moving attack targets anymore, as this is the profession of the scout. Skills: - "Hide" will be changed to "Advanced Hide" (or "Improved Hide" or whatever). A scout with this skill will still be hidden after taking damage and has a stronger translucency while crouching and hiding. He becomes hidden even when staying/walking/running, but the translucency while standing up will be the same as it would be without the skill (and standing targets are easier to see, of course). - "Radar Stealth" should also hide the scout from cameras and the enemy commander can not put a target on him. - "Weapon Silencer" should also hide the bullets and the light from the weapons to help the scout stay hidden. - Give the "Defusal" skill from grenadier to scout. It fullifies the same purpose as before: The user is immune to mines and is also able to defuse them. The grenadier gets the ability to defuse mines as a natural ability, but can´t get the immunity anymore. Taken from this very well thought out suggestion concerning the vehicle skills in general. - New "Technic Knowledge" skill: This skill doubles the sabotaging speed and also improves the scouts ability to build something with the "Use" key by 50-100%. It also enables him to further damage sabotaged buildings with the "Use" key. Effects of the changes: - The scout has more variation for his first skill, as his essential "Hide" ability isn´t skill dependant anymore. He could use the new "Technic Knowledge" skill to support the engineers in the beginning after boosting their stamina or just take the important "Speed Upgrade" first. - A scout with "Advanced Hide" has a better chance to stay unnoticed and can get to his target much faster if the enviroment allows it, as he is able to run along walls while staying hidden. The skills "Radar Stealth" and "Weapon Silencer", which were quite useless before, can now further improve his cover. - A scout with "Technic Knowledge" is much faster in taking out masses of turrets and can also keep more enemy engineers busy than before. It also helps with situational tactics, like a scout sneaking behind the enemy lines to build a secret base. - The "Defusal" skill qualifies the scout as a counter against mines and greatly expands his role in vehicle combat. Conclusion: The scout will be better at his primary expertise, without beeing overpowered in some way. He also gets a new role as a counter against mines and will also be a good choice for driving vehicles. He still won´t be a necessary component of a team like the other classes, but it will definetly be useful to have 1-2 around to harras the enemy team. And that alone would be a great improvement compared to the current situation. Comments and suggestions?
In addition Enhanced senses: range + 50% Squad leader aurapeed + 10% stamina regen +50% I've suggested most of what you've said before, and was about to make a new thread doing it again.
I like it, the scout is basically a waste of a class right now apart for lulz and i havent really seen any better suggestions.
As far as sticky grenades are concerned, I would be fine with them doing less damage(half), but being throwable like normal grenades. That would give them more tactical use than sticky grenades while not relying upon their damage as a factor. I like technical knowledge though. I would think it interesting if scouts had the ability to do everything an engineer could do with their tool except using their e button and performing at a significantly worse rate. It would give them more utilitarian abilities.
I like the suggestions. Maybe we get finally four usefull classes and not only three. But I would also take one big feature away from commander to the scout: Giving moving targets. That means, that commander can only give static targets (like attact this location). Maybe this can be done in Farcry style. Every enemy, which is seen by the scout thru binoculars is marked as target. And also the targets should be marked with little red diamonds, which stays until the enemy dies. If this seems to be overpowered, then there are many ways to lower the power (limit number of targets, targets disapear if scout is dead, targets disapear if to far away from scout, targets are selected by pressing attack while looking thru binoculars, scout must enable skill for this ...)
@Mashav: Some of your suggestions are a bit overpowered imo (like shooting while hiding or immunity to turrets), but I like the enhanced range for "Enhanced senses" and I guess you are right what the hiding is concerned. Do the sabtoged buildings already get damaged over time in the current version? I never noticed that. In any case, the damage should be considerable and any sabotaged building should get destroyed after 2-3minutes without repair (and turrets in about 1 minute). @RoboTek: Long ranged stun sticky can become overpowered. I would be satisfied with more ammo. @mr_quackums: Heal and repair should be exclusive for engineer, but deconstruction is a good idea and finally enables the scout to destroy buildings on his own if he has the time. @-=SIP=-: I really like that idea. It gives the scout an important role in a squad and relieves the commander of a tiresome task. My suggestion for the balancing: - Targets will be marked with the binoculars. - Only the scout himself and his squad sees the targets. - A scout can give up to 4 targets (5 if he is the squadleader). - The targets disapear when the scout dies or is too far away. I will change my suggestions concerned hiding in the following points: - The natural "Hide" ability does not take longer to hide - The "Hide" skill does allow the user to hide while standing/walking/running regardless of objects nearby. The translucency while standing is the same as it would be without the skill. The user is better hidden when crouching. *edits the opener*
I have to say in response to this though, I am now beginning to like his rifle after playing with him for a bit. You just have to accept that it cannot be used like a normal weapon. At its best it is a poor heavy rifle on a 'low combat' class. Perhaps not a full normal grenade length, but right now it has no solid anti-vehicular ability. I would be content with just more ammo if they could also sab vehicles for reduced speed, health, and damage over time. Heh, perhaps there could even be a general ability, longer grenade throws. That is another suggestion entirely though.
love the idea I pray they put it in scout was my first class I feel attached to it =[ wich makes me doomed to failure
I like this also and it should not be to complecated to program this. And with your idea the squad importance will be pushed immense. Hopefully one of the developers read this.
In my opinion any change made to the scour should be to the aim to make him a offensive specialist, a counter weight for the engineer which is a defensive specialist. So improving sabotage and giving him defusual would be great. Also i think he should be given the option to carry two grenade types, to improve his offensive support role. And for god sake today remove camera and radar from engineer and give to scout!
I don't like this idea: - Give the "Defusal" skill from grenadier to scout. It fullifies the same purpose as before: The user is immune to mines and is also able to defuse them. The grenadier gets the ability to defuse mines as a natural ability, but can´t get the immunity anymore. It seems that this defeats the idea of being able to remove mines unless there is some clear way to see the trigger range. It is hard enough to safely defuse mines with other people around.
Then who will get the targets? only their squad? all the people around them? I can see tons of confusion because there are more than one scout giving targets. commander targets are good enough
Only the squad should see the targets. Then we possible get real squads which work together. Other possibility would be the whole team. But then maybe it is overpowered. And it is no problem, if there are more than one scout. An object can be a target only once. It's doesn't matter, which scout has given this target. And of course the commander can give targets more easy. But it looks like cheating and is a kind of boring. Thereby other possibilities to give targets (camera, radar, scout) become useless. The aim of this is to improve teamplay (squads) and to give the scout a more important role.
I don´t see the problem. Just increase the range of defusal so you can defuse mines without stepping on them. The thing is: The grenadiers role is long range combat and thus he isn´t close to the front with the other guys. And to defuse mines he has to stay still for a few seconds , while being vulnarable to enemy attack. The scout on the other should always be at the frontline or beyond and could also hide while defusing. The scout would actually be able to defuse, while grens with defusal on the other hand just have it for the immunity. Concerning 2.23: At least sabotaging got properly buffed and scouts can make short work of turrets and lonely buildings now. But I don´t get why a scout doesn´t get points for a building he destroyed with sabbing. An additional point when the building gets destroyed for not beeing repaired would be appropriate. Also the other flaws still exist: Scouts are not very useful in teamplay and are just to slow while hiding.
