25% visible mines

How this works:

Every mine you drop as grenadier should turn 25% visible after it has been deployed. Engineers and rifleman should have a hard time finding those mines and discourage them using tanks. Now your asking yourself if grenadiers with defusal should be able to see them and the answer is no. To further improve teamwork, only scouts should be able to detect minefields and turn them visible by using their binoculars. This makes scout more useful in the frontline by making him a valueable member for battle.

Effects:

* Rifleman/Engineer would probably have even less reason to be driving in tanks which causes less flaming about people that don't use defusal.
* Grenadiers with defusal would be more important since mines turn out to be more deadly than before.
* Scouts would become more valueable in the aspect of informing your team and this would get more teamwork into the game. Also the binocular would finally have a use.

By the way, the scout should be rewarded with 1 point when he has scouted 2 mines with his binocular.

Only thing I am worried of is the infantry combat but I wanna see what the community thinks of this suggestion before I keep thinking this through.

edit:

25% visibility is just an example, my goal was to achieve visibility at close-distance but almost none at mid/long-distance.

 

Driving jeeps would become blind madness, but that aside , you don't let always a scout spawn in a rax before you spawn so you would be prone to run into mines if a gren got anywhere close to your rax,
or worse you would waste lots of tanks in mined VFs because

as long as you don't actually restrict vehicle creation to grens with defusal, there won't be any change to that (or the resulting flaming), mines are already damn hard to spot while driving a vehicle so the risk to drive into a mine is nothing new but a tad higher.
We have wages for stopping ppl from wasting their tanks.

Threequarter invisible mines sounds more like a extreme buff for grens to me and a pain to deal with while under attack than anything for discouraging someone to drive a tank.
Maybe I got a wrong feeling about how invisible the mines would be exactly but i figure a hidden scout while not touching any wall should be at about 30% opacity? With low contrast thats almost invinsible given that a mine is tiny compared to a whole player model, you would have to stare nonstop on the ground if theres noone stupid enough to run behind you with a binoc in his hand instead of having fun shooting at the enemy.

 

Driving jeeps would become madness but as of right now jeeps tempt to drive through a battlefield full of heavy tanks so they should expect death by doing that. I don't think mines mostly appear in area where there's no enemy at all and I hope to god that jeeps actually get used to do somethin else.

And about the grenadier in the base dropping mines, wouldn't you think a person would be more clever to watch for mines when you know a enemy grenadier has walked through those buildings? I suggested not to make them completely invisible for a reason. I just took 25% visibility as an example because I didn't know when mines are getting too invisible at a distance.

Mines visible from close-range, mines invisible from mid/long-range. Thats what I had in mind.

But I don't get how grenadiers would become more overpowered by making mines less visible from mid/long distance. And why would you play scout just for the FPS part of the game when they have important tasks like sabbing and supporting CV-Rape? We have rifleman for that.

 

You didn't mention anything about range in the first post, so it wouldn't apply as badly ofc.

It was just an example really, here's a comparison, dropping an ammobox once in a while for your teammates can be supportive and noone minds doing that, but what if you were half of your time mindlessly dropping ammoboxes everywhere? It's simply not fun.
While e.g. sneaking past turrets, hiding under the enemy's nose is fun.

Mines getting visible close up should be in the first post since it pretty much kills all the flaws anyway, I still don't see it having a huge impact on vehicle driver class selection though.

 

maybe a perk called mine hax to enable that

gud idea

 

Making it a perk and usink badz languagex skillz to name it iz horribliz. GET OUT. ove:

 

it wasnt bad language it was hax

 

It kinda didn't sound too bad, but then Kane reminded me about buildings.

Visible up close and relatively in-visible at distance sounds good. Though I would keep Gren's mine detector, since it's their fourth weapon and all, and have that in parallel with scouts being able to see them at distance relatively easily.

Though then again, that would make more scout drivers, wouldn't it?

 

I still think defusal simply shouldn't work against mines if you're in a vehicle.

Several advantages:

-Mines are a viable defensive tactic lategame.
-More variety in driver class lategame, probably still no scout/rifle drivers, but at least it'll be grens (armor detect) and engineers (repair).
-Mines are already piss weak against lategame armor anyway, I've seen heavy tanks drive over 8 mines and still have their armor up.
-Gren needs to actually be CAPABLE OF KILLING TANKS FOR FUCKS SAKE.

 

I thought of this idea because it sounded actually easy to program. Also since armor is going to get weaker, hidden mines would get even more destructive so you couldn't just mindlessly rush into something.

And about scout drivers... the only reason to why a scout would drive a vehicle would be prepare to rush an APC without getting blown up by mines since he's able to see them. Also he would have useful perks like "Vehicle Stealth" and "Vehicle Speed" to support that kind of thing.

@Empty:

Yeah... mines should actually just get set off when a tank is driving over them. A jeep shouldn't even be touched by one of those things. Maybe that would make defusal in battlefield more valueable?

@Kane:

In future gameplay tanks are going to have even less armor so some idiot with Rifleman/Engineer driving around in the battlefield is going to blow up because of those mines. That will hopefully teach them to use defusal or be useful to your team and go detect some mines.

 

I dont think this is really a good plan since grens would just become even stronger, maybe a second kind of mine, a camo mine that does less damage and you have less of them or something but surely not buff the gren class even more.

Btw think of district and escort, nf insta wins

 

Ok for the last time, how is this overpowering grenadiers?! You should be able to avoid enemy mines EASILY if they are visible in close-range unless your distracted. Also how do merely visible mines affect you driving your tank, if you really are stupid enough to drive through the streets of emp_escort without defusal it's your own fault. 9mines are usually placed in obvious places where there's no alternative to bypass it anyway.

Talking about overpowering grenadiers, even if this suggestion is making grenadier more capable of surprising tanks, reducing the armor of tanks is way more overpowering grenadiers than this.

So this suggestion would rather add to the tactical gameplay of grenadiers than "TROLOLOL I MORTAR U TWICE U DEAD". *sigh* Maybe I should drop this suggestion since it's not getting any approval.

 

I approve it

 

giving an already overpowered class the ability to work even better or become even stronger is overpowering it more imo

 

Mines are already good enough to earn kills, and are nightmare for newcomers.
This forces you to check the ground, and even then beacuse of distraction, you get blown up for sure.

Getting a shiny ride, from a little wrum-wrum to a massively armored, and fully armed battle tank, makes things harder by two factors; You cannot look absolutely down, so you don't see what is very close, almost underneath you.
AAAnd unless you research Danger Dave's handbreak, you won't be able to instantly stop whenever you wish, especially when you drive full speed you'll just slip into the pie, spotted or not...


I suggest something like, what Empty said:

Modify Defusal skill: Remove vehicle immunity to mines.
Scout Class specific skillset: add Defusal skill.

Reason: With this, minefields just like walls will completely (so longer being ignored by some tanks cuz of one skill) direct enemy movement, especially vehicle movement, very very very especially late game burha tank manouvre.
Combined assault (inf & vehicle together) will be more cruical, which is good.

 

Oh god, if Scouts had defusal, that'd be absolute rape on district. Speed + Melee + Defusal + Senses. Or for rushing APCs, Defusal + Vehicle Speed.

 

Candles: Isn't district (and escort) which doesn't matter for balancing? And even then, if the scout can disable mines, he still cannot disable nadespam and a bullet right in the head.
So if you pwn noobs who doesn't espect a sprinting ghost that instakill touches them, DOES NOT MEAN it's absolute rape against everyone...

Flasche: Idk why defuse has connection to sabotage? A scout basicaly sab the buildings from outside, on the rear positions, where are no doors, and grens rarely drop their mines on there anyway.

Both you and Candles mentioned APC rushes... my suggestion contains that Defusal skill no longer protects vehicles, so gren or scout driver won't be able to rush trough a minefield.
Is it still a rush if he has to STOP hop out, defuse, and hop back START driving again? (Even if someone else hops out, the driver can only evasive manouvre on the "safe" side, and can't go through.)