Having played some DoW lately has given me some ideas about empires res management. Idea: -A res node must be captured(like a flag) then it produces the minimum res(+1). -Then a refinery is built on it upgrading it's production(+2) -The refinery can be upgraded again, adding an auto turret and upping res again(+3) If this system were to be integrated into empires mod I think it would help non engy classes effect the res flow and will take some of the hurt off the commander("Ref g4 stupid com!"). I would suggest in addition that ref's be given a slow auto build as well. Thus giving riflemen motivation to stick around and protect it even if there's no engy there. And engineers will just speed up the process. I understand this is a radical change to game play, I think it would be for the better tho.
com with lots of refs will have more resources and thus be able to upgrade his refs faster snowball effect i like the whole capturing effect, it gave me the idea of what if ref spots do not "lose" the resources they generate when "not built" but store half, or quart of it, and on "capture" by infantry, this resource is added to the teams pool and a standard set amount is added to the "trophy pool" when a refinery is built on the node (1000 res or so, maybe less) that the enemy team of the builders get if they destroy the ref built ref and capture the point for there own this would allow guerilla tactics as make the infantry more useful in getting resources (imagine capturing that lonely n/e ref that the other guys ignored for half the game)
I would love to see this implemented, with the exception of a turret being added. Just capping then placing the ref would be good enough.
I'd say your first concern could be balanced by an exponential cost. So that a com would only upgrade a building that their sure wont be attacked. Thus making front line res more easly captured. Basically I see it as bringing some strategy to finances. I'd like to encourage your thinking out side the box their but I don't think that system is easily understood. I'd rather there be a 50 res bonus for stealing a node then some amounting stock. I'd like it to be better to steal a node then to claim one. like a rank point for a steal, and 1/2 of one for a claim. An varbles I'd agree to a two tier system(thus the topic name). How ever I feel a third tier for safe refinerys might be needed. Maybe tier 3 is more vulnerable but higher out put? I just think there needs to be a "turtleing" ref of some kind.
it works in DOW because your soldiers actually listen to you and GO to where you tell them to go. in emp - good luck, not even feng shui will turn these bastards around.
well I have to say(really I cant stop myself) your argument is against the current system as well. In fact my suggestion would suit the random behavior of units better due to the incentive for non engie classes to participate.
il tell you again without the chatter to make it clear if you give refs tiers they will most likely add into the benefit of the most wealthiest team
So how is that different from the current system? nvm If you want balance I've got bad news for you. If you want to fight the downward spiral mechanics I have many other Ideas. how ever In empires the team with the money is going to win. If you want to change that then there needs to be something they trade for that money. If we make tier 3 refs "paper", and give reward's when thier taken then you've got your self some fighting. But you guys want to believe that theres no way strategy and team work can take advantage of such a trade. Why are you even playing!!!!
I think the possibility to upgrade refs gives a winning team a bigger advantage, but the ability to gain res flow without putting down a ref benefits a possibly losing team.
why bother implementing this if it can potentially benefit BOTH teams at the same time. obviously the winning team will have enough res to upgrade all their ref to get more res for more tanks and the losing teamw ill upgrade their base ref to hold off the enemy until they have better tanks i think a way to remedy this is... upgrading res nodes will be costly, lets say it cost 1,000 resources. it will increase res flow.. BUT they would make good targets for enemies to kill. this would make the commander think before they upgrade a ref point. this would prevent a commander from upgrading every ref on the map.
^This For an upgraded refinery a new model would be needed and this isn't going to happen anytime soon.
I'm more partial to refs just being capturable - you cap a flag that spawns the ref and the other team has to destroy the ref first which turns the flag neutral so they can cap and spawn their own ref. Seems simpler, easier and yeah removes the entire need for the commander to have to be involved in a core gameplay element which shouldn't leave people waiting around on one person.
Im sensing someone who yells for com to place a ref and doesn't get one. lol Really, I wish that a ref would be one of the things a engineer could place. Less dependence on com and no need to resort to flag humping for other classes. I just don't know how we can get an engineer to place a ref tho without using team res and maby delaying the uber tank or an important research item. edit idea: Perhaps it should take 2 or more clalcs full to build one yourself. Trading calc juice for the lack of resources used. THIS could help cash strapped loosing teams fight back.
commander ... ur just stuck with who u have. i dont think u should reduce the role of the commander. cause then the next problem will be waiting on the commander to research... lol
Actually I almost always get mine because I have a mic and i'm happy to wait since I know how hard it is to manage the team, as i'm often commanding myself. It just means that the engineer has a ridiculous advantage over every class, and too that means that no other class can actually cap refs, except engies. At least with the comm placing then, people can ebuild them etc. I know I said the comm doesn't really need it, but if you put it into the engy class that class has a tremendous impact on the game, quadruple that of any other class, especially when the engy is the key class already. Er...no. I'm not someone who advocates getting rid of the commander, it's actually a really interesting - and fun - game mechanic. But for some things, like refs...the game would flow a lot easy if infantry could do it themselves.
I like the idea of refs being capturable, but I don't like the idea of any increase in resource flow that could possibly benefit the winning team. However, I would like to propose an alternative. Captured nodes and refineries would produce the same amount of resources, however the difference between the two would be how often you get those resources. Captured nodes would provide a resource "lump sum" every minute or so, equal to a minutes worth of constant production as we have now. Refineries would function as refineries do currently, and would be desirable as they solidify control of a res node and prevent the team from getting into situations where they cannot build due to being between "lump sums". Thoughts?
That's an interesting idea. I think perhaps we should have more flags while still preserving the refinery mechanism - maybe we should make all low-yield refs to be cappable, while the really big ones you have to fight over. So far, most flags are powerful (e.g. coast), is it better that way, or better to have something that can't just be capped, but has to be built on as the higher yield flow? Actually I think some maps could fit this really easily...and you don't need to change all the refs. If you make all the areas that are defensible require refs, and some of the ancilliaries just be flags, that might work better. For a map such as cyclopean most of the refs would stay the same, but the mid-south and the east nodes certainly could both be flags instead. I mean...those often change hands, and the best way you get res out of them is if the other team don't notice you've got it. It depends, but i'm kinda partial to reworking small and unnoticed ref points as flags - making it easier for infantry to cap and make a difference, but not destroying the overall playability of maps. Vess's ideas aren't too bad (disregarding the turret) and would probably work in the same way - what is an autobuilding ref compared to a flag? They're about the same.
I'm glad some discussion came of this. So rather then an upgrade to tier 3 The commander can issue an "executive order" that doubles all ref(not caps but actual refs) out put for 60 seconds, but all refs take 3x damage and smoke. this ability should have a 2 minute cool down. Discuss?
