I just tried out flipping the NF CV on a local server a minute ago, and strangely, every second mine placed under the CV would explode... however, its still pretty possible to place 6 mines just out of range of this "mine explodey thing" and then place a couple in range, causing an explosion that can flip the NF CV. (the BE CV isn't really worth ninjaing now, unless you have two people) Intentional or not though, this seems pretty good, even though it ruins one of my favourite pastimes.
I don't see why it was nerfed again, its already nigh on impossible in 2.23, it requires 2 people at least, I consider that a team effort. Why nerf it more?
Two people is still only a tiny part of a team, team effort is when the whole team goes from one end of the map to the other, through the entire enemy team.
It takes all the ammo you got to kill just a light tank or an afv in 2.3. Maybe in tanks you can ninja but not as a gren. Prolly not even 5 grens with arty strikes.
IIRC, the comm vehicles spawn like this, however, when someone gets in it, it no longer sets off mines too soon. But that could have changed.
It either needs to be possible to use epic teamwork to bring your team back from the brink of defeat in the corner of a map, or it needs to be possible to ninja. currently, the first one is impossible, which in my opinion is due to tanks pwning infantry, and the second one is just removed. It's just not fair or fun that a team is unable to win, no matter what. they need a reason to keep playing, to not suicide the command vehicle. just my input
Ninjaing isn't fun though, even if it's successful all it does is annoy the winning team and ends it faster for the losing team. It's stupid to say that a feature which annoys the hell out of one team is good because if it wasn't there, it would annoy the hell out of the other team. One team is always going to be annoyed, it makes no sense for that team to be the one who was previously enjoying themselves, it completely destroys the fun of feeling like you played well when the game goes 'HURR NO YOU LOST DIPSHIT' randomly.
Well, this is my view, though most importantly read the bottom sentence. In all honesty, even as the winning team, I think ninjaing is good. I can never be certain that i'm going to win, I'm never just seiging an enemy base that will never be able to come back. THAT is boring in my opinion. Several times i've been ninja'd on the winning team, and all I can say is well done to the losing team. moments from destruction, they've pulled out all the stops and won it back. Because it's like chess, even if you have many more pieces than the opposition, they can turn it around with a few nice moves. there's no "deserve to win", which in my opinion, is BS. and then there are the times when the losing team has been able to ninja. Easily the best moments i've ever had on empires... by a long shot. holding the line, fighting the enemy for every damn inch just to give my men enough time to pull it back for us, well, that's been amazing. There's been a reason to fight. If you enjoy that point in the game where the enemy is crushed, and the game is decided, where you can pretty much go around running over the enemy infantry for lols, then that's fine, but I prefer a competition, an "on the edge of your seat until the last second" fight to the death. I've been on dozens of teams. I'm tempted to say hundreds, where it's looked like we have no chance. I can definately say i've talked more than a dozen commanders out of suiciding. because it was always my belief that every game is worth fighting for, that no matter how bad the situation, there's that last roll of the dice you can throw. I really do see this as killing the reason to fight at the end. This is what happens when games get designed by committee, i guess. you know what really kills the experience for me? those game quitting, empires uninstalling moments are when I don't have a reason to fight. when every spawn is just to die with the knowledge that nothing me or my team can do can win the game. because that can last half an hour, and there's no tention, there's no debate over who is going to win. it's just shit. when ninja'ing is removed, expect to see comm suicides, teams giving up. Us two, we're not going to get anywhere on this subject. We have massively different experiences and opinions of it, so this is my last word on it.
As a losing team member I fight simply because it's fun, fighting a losing battle can be very liberating because you know you're going to lose, so all you have to do is take as many enemies with you as possible. I've lost games that have been great fun, I don't think I've ever enjoyed a game where we've won by ninjaing, usually because I was enjoying blowing up tanks and then some asshole comes along and ruins it all by winning the game.
I agree ninjas are dead and gone and should stay that way. But you have never been in the games where they have 10 nuke tanks sitting out side your base and you die anytime you leave your rax, half your teams inside just constantly repairing so the enemy's can't kill it. Those games where they don't kill your cv cause they just want to play with you like a cat does a mouse. That's not fun for the losers imo. And thats when you ninja but people like snakedfox ruin it and do it on winning teams which you can't stop. So it ends with that.
I have been in games like that and ninjas don't make it better, they just end it sooner which comm suiciding can do just as well. That's a problem with the game itself, and needs a proper solution like a 'final push' button which gives all your infantry god mode and instagib rifles for thirty seconds and then kills them five minutes later, something which lets everyone go beserk and fight back rather than one eejit finish the game early.
I agree with Chris0132, ninjaing is a shitty way to win/lose. I think its an Empire's 'feature' in the way that 9mining was a 'feature'. I think a better solution is either to buff ways for the losing team to make a comeback (e.g. upkeep, res from dead tanks, progressive building/tank prices, etc.) or buffing the winning team's ability to win so that they win faster (less time spent on a losing game). I think the major frustration in Empire's is not losing, but spending 30+ minutes on a losing game. Most other FPS mods/games have shorter match times (10-30 minute range) so that if you are losing, it will be over quick and you can try better next round. But its truly frustrating wasting an hour of your time in a match that was decided in the first 10 minutes.
It would be even worse if Empires somehow ended up on the xbox360. I've seen 2 TF2 games where the attacking team was clearly winning, but instead of capping the final point, they camped the enemy spawn and killed them. I've only seen this on the xbox360 though, never on PC. Empires would be the only PC team oriented game I've seen this happen on.
