卐AUSTRIA PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION 2016卐

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by McGyver, May 5, 2016.

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Who would you vote?

Poll closed May 26, 2016.
  1. The candidate that loves Austria

    42.9%
  2. The candidate that hates Austria

    57.1%
  1. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    #ThanksObama
     
  2. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    Sadly true. And here I thought advocating for States' Rights ended with the American Civil War...
     
  3. Devourawr

    Devourawr Member

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    American states and European states aren't comparable, because Europeans states are nations as well. American states are just full of Yankees, Mexicans, and to the delusional folks, Dixies.

    How exactly is a system like that supposed to work EXCEPT incredibly loosely? The EU has been relatively good until the migrant crisis - keeping distance from imposing legislation on smaller states and instead working in small ways to make life better for everybody.

    People who just blindly say "hurrr it needs more power" are missing to be point that there is no way to have a functioning democracy when inevitably, different national interests will arise.

    Germany wants everyone to take its migrants away, or at least as many as it can convince them to. Greece is also desperate for this, especially considering how many people have moved through a country with a relatively small landmass and population. But what is the "gib legislative power" solution to this? Have Germans vote to force open Polish borders?

    Federations work best when they're inhabited by the same people (USA, Aus, Germany, etc) or have a massive difference in the balance of power within them to keep the other nations in line (Russia). Europe does not have the first and you can understand why lots of people don't want a fourth reich.

    I swear, the only reason people are starting to turn against the EU is because of the threats of ramping up its powers. The EU is great as it is. Just leave it alone and stop trying to interfere with other nations from within. You want 2.000.000 refugees? Okay. But don't try make other people, who don't want them, take them.
     
  4. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    You have no idea what you are talking about, what you say is equal to political sophistry. I cant speak for the parts about the USA and states, but the parts about europe are simply not the core issues at hand.
     
  5. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I want to believe that the sense of unity in Europe grows by the minute despite the crisis. Cultural differences and languages are not an issues to unity as long as they are respected. That's the point of Europe. Thus I think it could work as a federation. Clash of national interests is not a big issue either. In a Europe of mutual respects both sides can win and mutual concessions are part of a healthy relationship anyway.

    What are the national interests that could cause trouble?
     
  6. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    i've been very close to liking your posts but i cant just bring myself to do it
     
  7. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    The problem is that some are just inherently incompatible with others, or even worse... some cultures are inherently superior to others.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    what culture?
     
  9. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Some cultures, i wasnt talking about a certain culture just that some cultures are better then others, and cultures can be compared and judged against each other for their merits.

    ISIS culture vs Western culture in general for example... ISIS has a culture that is clearly worse then the average culture of the western world, even if some aspects of the western worlds general culture has bad traits.
     
  10. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    terrorism has nothing to do with culture, at the maximum it (ab)uses it as justification.
    do you really believe the bullshittery concerning religion? laughtable at best.
    the leading role in IS are former members of baath-party, saddams army, and intelligence service.

    all they do is exploiting an age old conflict among the different directions of islam for their personal gain.
    mix that with a low quality of life, little education, and a dark outlook to ones future, and you get terrorism (dont mean the leaders, but their soldiers).
    or to take "our" terrorists, since a majority is 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.
    its what you get when you segregate instead of integrating people (looking at you france fe.)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  11. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    all of that is culture. Also you have the order wrong... the Bath party was secular, and only went along with the religious extremists to get back to power and relevance after saddam fell.

    The leading roles in ISIS are filled with bath party positions, but the guys in charge are the religious leaders, ISIS military for example is run by a previous !atheist! general from saddams regime, he made ISIS succesful on the military side, but he is not 'calling the shots' on general ideology drive... that would be the nutters that started ISIS.

    Saying ISIS is not religiously inspired is like saying cheese is not made of milk... ISIS is a fraction from Alquaida that broke off because they thought the main branch was too forgiving for sinners, too open for other viewpoints and did not interpret the kuran strict enough. Sure the guy making the call to break off was probably thinking 'this is an easy way to get lots of power lol' but he coudnt have done that if the people that started ISIS on the ground level did not support this religious view... he could not have exploited it if the cultural drive to go more extreme wasn't there first to exploit... this is the culture of isis.

    Also your usage of the word terrorist in the context you use it is laughable.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  12. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    there are varying degrees of vagueness in definitions of culture since its a broad idea, but in general culture is the zeitgeist political ideology of a group of people, combined with their customs, identity and history.

    One guy thinking infidels should be put to death for example is not culture
    a group of people all thinking infidels should be put to death is not culture 'per se'
    a group of people where the general public majority agreement is that infidels should be put to death is culture.

    Its about how these people act in the group that makes it culture, not how the individuals act or how all individuals seem to act in unison.
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    im sorry, but for me this simply is about getting into power and cultural or religious justifications only serve as means for the purpose.
    describing it as culture only gives it more meaning and value than there is.
     
  14. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    You at least must admit that without the people actually wanting the 'cultural or religious justifications' you cannot use it to get to power?

    the 'people wanting the cultural or religious justifications' is culture, the 'lets abuse that for political gain lol' is politics abusing culture.

    ISIS isnt some massive 'everyone is in on it' ponsi scheme... those people fighting in ISIS are fighting for what they believe is true and just... even if they are abused they believe it
     
  15. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i guess i mainly miss the historical component in this.
     
  16. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    You want the allquaida one? the Islamic one? the brutal oppressive regimes after regimes one?
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    but isnt the culture they exploit islam? much like our right-wing parties rediscovered the christian-jewish occidential culture simply for the puropse of distinction?
    neither of both exists as homogenous culture, its just a story of the history of ideas (and less seperated as the terms make it sound)

    maybe im to eurocentric in this, but for me culture is "positve".
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  18. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    What does western culture have to do with anything of this? Western cultures can relate with each other just fine. Germany is an example of this; a country with different people that didn't even like each other, united for the common good. On the other hand there are many example of countries in Europe that split in two, like Czechoslovakia. Why is that? I don't know the history behind that but I presume all people were coped as they same thing... opposing a culture to the others or disrespecting theirs. Maybe that was one of the reasons idk.

    The differences are a problem only if you see them as something bad. Greece and Germany is not like saying Poland and Turkey. The differences are not that big.
     
  19. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    ok so be it - its in "their" culture and this culture simply is incompatible.
    our homogenous western christian-jewish occidential culture not only is totally existing, it also is superior in any shape or form.
    easily explains everything and justifies our hatred, so it must be true.

    what do i care actually, the world is gonna turn with or without me argueing.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  20. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Huge mobiliziation of the lefties against Norbert Hofer today. Can you spot Flasche in the video?
     

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