★UNITED STATES PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION 2016★

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Candles, Jun 16, 2015.

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  1. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    the best way to ensure high quality healthcare at affordable rates is through competition. Not through govt control, they cant even run the Post Office well.

    Open the states' borders (figuratively) so people can shop across state lines, nothing works better than good old fashion competiton to keep quality up and prices down, and ofc there should always be healthcare available for the one who LEGITMATELY can't afford it.
     
  2. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    That sounds high, even for your age and geographic area. Is that for individual coverage (just you)?

    NY has a state exchange, so it's a pain in the ass to look up premium rates quickly, but I bet there might be some better options for you.

    This is murica, there are always loopholes.
     
  3. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    No offense taken; everyone has different experiences that shape their own political beliefs. I have a friend who's father's premiums went up as a result of Obamacare for coverage he didn't want or need, so it's reasonable that he'd be opposed to it. Same friend doesn't have student loans and is planning on getting a job that would make him a good amount of money, so he wouldn't support a minimum wage hike, nor increased taxes on things such as luxury goods to pay for college. Likewise, I have a friend that's scraping by with student loans and would not be able to afford health insurance on top of that. Obamacare allows him to stay on his parents' insurance plan until he's 26, at which time he'll've graduated and ought to have a job with a more stable financial situation. And him being burdened with excess student debt makes him support the idea of free college tuition.

    For me, a lot of these policies just make sense. A single-payer system of healthcare would lower costs by cutting out the insurance middleman. Gun's shouldn't be banned, but there should be a system in place to make sure people without training or a stable mental state don't get their hands on them. Banks shouldn't be able to be so large that a single one collapsing would take down the entire economy. Mandatory drug sentences for possession serves to disenfranchise minorities and to crowd an already overpopulated and overpriced prison system (It generally costs between 20,000$ and 40,000$ a year per inmate to have them in prison, regardless of the crime they commit. NYC spends over 150k$ a year per inmate, the state as a whole spends around 60k$ per inmate per year.) These are things I believe in from my experiences growing up and the influence of my parents.

    Because although we like to imagine that the Supreme Court is entirely apolitical, it is most definitely a political institution. Even if it wasn't, there are still numerous forms of constitutional interpretation that make it hard to say that something is entirely constitutional or not. Take Brown v. Board of Education, which overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. Plessy v. Ferguson create the institution of "separate but equal" and said it was entirely constitutional in a 7-1 vote. Brown v. Board of Education then overturned it entirely in a unanimous 9-0 vote 60 years later saying that it was entirely unconstitutional. Were both cases based entirely off purely constitutional grounds, there would be no difference in the rulings, but they went entirely in separate directions (Note that during the period between 1896 and 1954, there had been no amendments to the Constitution relevant to the matter either.)

    There's also the argument that there's no link between the Constitution and marriage, so it becomes a political question that lies outside of the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

    I believe it would be the same country, if only because they're really not any more radical than other policy changes have been in the past. When the Civil War ended, slavery was abolished and due process was embedded in the Constitution, did America stop being America? When labor laws banning child labor and protecting worker's rights went into effect, did it stop being America? When FDR pegged the value of the dollar to an amount of gold, implemented the New Deal reforms and signed Social Security into law, did it stop being America? Or how about when LBJ created Medicare/Medicaid? I don't believe that policies like these are nearly extreme enough to stop America from being America.


    P.S., I fully expect my political views to be criticized because I recognize that "common-sense politics" isn't a thing and I go extremely far to the left of everyone else. I would be very surprised if many American's on this forum actually agreed with me.
     
  4. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    dude you really hate education
    the us still has a private healthcare system, not single-payer (which works well enough in every country its in). its because obama is a stooge for the insurance lobby that the system is total crap, as is every other politician with every other lobby.

    the best case scenerio is that you'll get a politician that isn't a stooge for one lobby. what will it be this year, insurance, guns, isp, or the nsa (see my second post for the other option)
     
  5. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    My health insurance is from the NY health exchange and its an individual plan just for me. Sure there are some cheaper ones but the deductibles, copays and co insurance would bankrupt me.

    2 years ago the first premium rate was about 500.00 I don't recall exactly atm, this year it went up to about 589.00 now in their 2nd increase they are asking for 680 and some change for 2016.
     
  6. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I actually didn't really understand most of the education questions. I kind of tried to guess what they are but it's possible I made a mistake.

    My view is that I don't support teaching everyone to the same level because I think it's dumb to label people with non-academic qualities a failure and dumb to hold people who are very academic back so that it makes other students feel better. I went to a selective academic school and I'm glad for that, but we still took the same exams as the rest of the country which was fine. However, a lot of people in other schools simply weren't ever going to pass those exams with anything usable. It was just wasted time for them when they could instead have chosen to take the route of learning more vocational stuff such as becoming car mechanics, plumbers, builders, etc.

    I used to have a view that university should be free, but MOOtant was actually the one who totally changed my view. He explained that it's free in Poland, and as a result everyone goes to University for the sake of it. While many are doing it to get qualifications for a career, many just do it for the sake of delaying work for 3-4 years while they study a worthless degree and just party most of the time, being completely uninterested in actually passing their degree or whatever. The cost barrier in front of a degree makes people consider whether they actually want to do it, and changes it so you have to think about it as investing in yourself. You're taking on debt so you have to know that you intend to make use of the time and money you're spending by coming out with a decent degree that can grant you employment or at least further you as a person.
     
  7. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    I actually have quite the response to that one, but I don't want to type it out on my phone, so I'll leave a few keywords to remind me of what I want to say about it when I get home: tuition costs, student debt, competitive creativity, innovation, accessibility.
     
  8. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    People do the same here and pay no heed to the fact that they are spending 40k to study useless degrees and party every day. It's not the fact that it's free is the issue, it's that people have no ambition or their parents didn't leave a good example.
     
  9. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    sure if you want to wait 8 months to see an ENT or go on long lists for surgeries..NO TY

    It's folly to think government can take as good care of our health as we can privately.
    What agency has the govt handled well?
    and if their single payer system is so great why do those who can afford it come to the USA to be treated when they have a serious health issue.
     
  10. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh that's easy, your technology is ahead of the rest of us.
     
  11. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Bettter get a gay transgender next else the minorities are going to be moaning about their turn .
    Ah, im glad for having mostly free higher education.
    Problem doesnt seem to be in the costs, but just with the dumb system of giving money to universities based on student count and the whole shit about "promoted degrees", which leaves alot of room for abuse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  12. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Because they can afford it, otherwise for most of us if suddenly we fall ill we have to take out mortgages and loans if we had to pay ourselves.
     
  13. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    its six months for surgery only (in the worst province for wait times)
    my dad has never had problem with wait time for surguries

    the government may not handle it as good as if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars, but it handles it good enough.
    for an agency the us government has handled well: the irs
    the canadian government handles more agencies well (more and more worse recently, but still good overall)

    people go to the us because the best specialists are there. same reason why everyone consumes american entertainment
     
  14. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    Yes because our system is broken but obamacare is not and will never be the answer. It is draining my finances terribly and polls show most American don't want it.
    As for a single payer system..Govt doesn't handle any of their agencies. depts well, not to mention the corruption and red tape involved
    I sure as hell don't want to trust them with my health.

    I feel the idea of competition would be the best solution as I stated in an earlier post. quality at reasonable prices and always have available health care for those who cant afford it.
     
  15. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Lol, 700$ per month for health insurance. I hope that atleast includes cancer treatment and other ultra-expensive stuff.
     
  16. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    you gotta be kidding me about the IRS??? after all these recent scandals and them targeting people???

    and as for Canada
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadeem-esmail/canada-free-health-care_b_3733080.html

    NO TY
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  17. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    i have always been against obamacare
    canada has free healthcare for all which is managed by the provinces, and private insurance if you want it.
    i just calculated a quote from a private health care provider in canada and a person and spouse with enhanced coverage and dental, its $300 a month

    e: never said i liked the irs. its just run well

    and your link, the guys byline says: The Fraser Institute
    its a conservative think tank. i wouldnt put any trust in whatever it says. it has no weight in canada (all that guys articles are pieces about the healthcare system. hes obviously a paid shill)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  18. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    there are many articles like that about CA, how can the IRS be run well if they are targeting people and abusing their position????
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  19. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    it covers almost everything with a copay, I have no deductible or coinsurance,
    but I had the same type of coverage for a lot less (about 400.00 a month) before obamacare and I wasn't paying for things I don't need like child dental and eye care and such. Which honestly I don't mind helping some strangers child get coverage but not at these prices.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  20. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I'm kind of torn on healthcare. I feel like what we had in Britain was probably one of the best systems in the world up until 10-15 years ago. It was freely accessible to all, waiting times were short, the latest technology was available, etc. The Blair government introduced tonnes of accountants and managers into the system and clogged it up. Extra paperwork for liabilities and such clogged it up further. Now it's kind of a mess. Going to A&E can be up to a 4 hour wait time and surgeries get constantly cancelled and rescheduled.

    But the system can work if done properly. My uncle's friend was a surgeon with the NHS for over 30 years, so I got most of that opinion based off what he told me. He loved what he did for a long time but he said once all the managers and accountants came in, took over wards (previously matrons ran them) and such, the quality of care just dropped through the floor. It did work before that so that's a proof of concept in itself.

    I don't dispute the US probably has the highest quality healthcare in the world, but we were probably extremely close in the late 90s/early 2000s, and I think that's a price worth paying so that everyone can access it. The idea that people can be bankrupted from illnesses or even just paying for insurance is actually disgusting in my eyes. It's bad enough when people lose the ability to work but when I see pictures of people's hospital bills way into 6 figures, it makes me really sick. I mean, even having a child can cost a fortune just for the hospital stay. The same really goes for dental care in the UK as well, it used to be pretty decent but if you want good dental care now you basically need to go private. Opticians and such are free to those under 18 or over 65 but to be honest, it's not really that expensive anyway for eye tests and glasses.
     
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